Gospelbound

Join Collin Hansen, Michael Graham, and Sarah Zylstra as they continue to look back on the top theology stories from the last 25 years. In part 1, they counted down stories #10 to #6. Now in part 2, Graham and Zylstra walk with Hansen through his stories #5 down to #1.

In This Episode:

00:00:00 – Why homosexuality became a presenting issue dividing the church

00:00:41 – Sarah Zylstra introduces the second half of the top 10 list

00:01:34 – Recap of stories 10 through 6 from the previous episode

00:03:06 – Number 5: COVID-19 shuts the world down

00:04:57 – COVID, institutional mistrust, and the authority of scientists

00:06:25 – A decade of digital change compressed into one year

00:09:22 – What COVID did to church attendance and online ministry

00:11:38 – Rediscovering embodied worship after metaverse-era predictions

00:14:11 – Number 4: The Trump era and its theological consequences

00:15:41 – Supreme Court appointments, religious liberty, and legal change

00:18:50 – Dobbs, abortion, and evangelical disengagement from the pro-life cause

00:19:54 – Immigration as a leading social and theological issue

00:22:13 – Executive power, post-liberalism, and Christian nationalism

00:24:05 – Number 3: Obergefell and the moral transformation of marriage

00:25:20 – Sexuality, family, and the collapse of shared moral norms

00:27:48 – Don Carson’s 2005 warning about homosexuality as a presenting issue

00:29:22 – Mainline denominational splits and the global Methodist divide

00:32:11 – Why many evangelicals held to historic sexual ethics

00:33:17 – How race and sexuality became bundled in public discourse

00:36:56 – Rebecca McLaughlin and navigating race and sexuality faithfully

00:37:21 – Number 2: The iPhone and the shift to digital life

00:38:05 – Smartphones, fertility decline, and changing social habits

00:39:13 – Social contagion, gender identity, and online plausibility structures

00:40:08 – Podcasts, YouTube, AI, and the reshaping of knowledge

00:43:44 – Mike Graham on screens, AI, and the future of epistemology

00:48:00 – Individualized media diets, institutional decline, and gender divergence

00:50:06 – AI sycophancy, abuse scandals, and algorithm-shaped reality

00:53:51 – Why digital life felt like it could have been number one

00:54:26 – Number 1: Why 9/11 tops the list

00:56:23 – Christianity, Islam, and civilizational conflict

01:00:07 – 9/11, the new atheism, and the category of “fundamentalism”

01:02:01 – Theodicy, suffering, and major disasters after 9/11

01:03:12 – Mike Graham on why 9/11 is civilizationally decisive

01:06:17 – Middle Eastern Christians, Iraq, Syria, and migration into Europe

01:07:11 – Signs of God’s providence and good emerging from tragedy

01:09:18 – Tim Keller, New York church planting, and the young, restless, and Reformed movement

01:12:58 – Closing reflections on God’s providence over the last 25 years

Resources Mentioned:

Rediscover Church by Collin Hansen and Jonathan Leeman

The Secular Creed by Rebecca McLaughlin

The WEIRDest People in the World by Joseph Henrich

Generations by Jean M. Twenge

Timothy Keller by Collin Hansen

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Join Collin Hansen, Michael Graham, and Sarah Zylstra as they look back on the top theology stories from the last 25 years. In part 1 of this two-part series, Graham and Zylstra walk with Hansen through his stories #10 down to #6.

Since the year 2000, religion in America has changed dramatically. As recently as the 1990s, religion in America was what Tim Keller called “thick”: In general, many clergy were held in high esteem, churches were respected, and people either belonged to a congregation or knew that would be a good idea.

Yet since 2000, the percent of religious Americans has dropped and the number of nones (no religion) has jumped up from 8 percent to 22 percent—and climbing.

So while social commentators lament how much time Americans spend on our screens, describe how views on sexuality have drastically changed, identify how our politics have become sharply polarized, and observe how mental health especially in Gen Z has declined, they often miss the biggest story of all, the one underneath all the others—the decline in attention and deference to God.

In This Episode:

00:00 — The Great Dechurching: belief vs. disaffiliation

00:32 — Sarah hosts: why a 30,000-foot view now

03:26 — “Factfulness” and why we overlook positive trends

05:00 — #10: Global church leadership moving south

09:02 — Theological education hasn’t moved south at the same pace

10:03 — #9: Rise of non-denominational congregations

14:49 — Data point: non-denominationalism grows from ~3% (1972) to ~14–15% today

17:27 — Why churches drop denominational labels; media amplification; scandal-by-association

20:00 — #8: China’s church growth—and crackdown

22:07 — India, Hindu nationalism, and persecution; Nigeria and the Africa frontier

25:41 — #7: The Dechurching of America

30:24 — Apologetics after dechurching: from hostility to apathy

34:25 — Are churches fewer but stronger?

36:39 — Retention vs. conversion: why evangelical identity declines less

39:09 — #6: The Great Awokening (Ferguson to Floyd)

47:20 — Four paradigms for navigating race in America

52:44 — Wrap-up: Part 2 teaser

53:10 — Outro + where to find the podcast/newsletter

Resources Mentioned:

Factfulness by Hans Rosling

The Reason for God by Timothy Keller

Making Sense of God by Timothy Keller

A Secular Age by Charles Taylor

Divided by Faith by Michael Emerson

The Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby

We Have Never Been Woke by Musa al-Gharbi

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When we receive applications for fellows at The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics, we ask them to answer the question, “What one thing should Christians do right now to introduce their neighbors to Jesus?” It’s not that we think there’s only one answer. It’s that we want them to identify the top priority. Last year we were surprised when every applicant gave the same answer. They talked about the public witness of gathered Christians, the church.
Maybe they were responding to negative press about the church, going back 25 years to the Catholic abuse scandal at the same time the internet became ubiquitous. Or maybe they were expressing renewed appreciation for the gathered church after the COVID-era shutdowns and public disorder. Either way, they were going back to biblical concept rooted in Israel’s testimony to the nations, and the early church in the book of Acts that found favor with all. 
Bob Thune is a fellow for the Keller Center and writes about this so-called ecclesial apologetics in a chapter for our new book, The Gospel After Christendom: An Introduction to Cultural Apologetics, published by Zondervan Reflective. He’s also a featured teacher in an exciting new video small-group curriculum called Making Sense of Us, published by The Gospel Coalition and Keller Center. His session, recorded against the backdrop of the Statue of Liberty in New York City, covers the cultural narrative we tell each other in the modern West about liberty. We believe this curriculum can help you, especially young adults, to both evangelize and edify. When you watch and study with other church members, and even non-Christians, you can learn together about the Bible’s better story about liberty, which we live out together in the church. 
In This Episode:
00:00 – A deeper freedom: set free from self for love 
00:32 – Keller Center fellows: why the gathered church matters for witness 
01:41 – Introducing Bob Thune, ecclesial apologetics, and Making Sense of Us 
02:39 – Lesslie Newbigin and a missionary posture toward the modern West 
05:06 – Is Omaha post-Christian? Modern Western culture everywhere 
06:34 – Ecclesial apologetics despite church messiness 
09:17 – Gospel doctrine and gospel culture (truth, goodness, beauty) 
11:03 – Christian hospitality: making room for outsiders with conviction and listening 
17:03 – Why this differs from the seeker movement 
19:10 – Transition to Making Sense of Us: liberty and the Statue of Liberty backdrop 
20:16 – Modern misconception: freedom as “freedom from” (negative liberty) 
22:17 – Galatians 5: freedom subverted and fulfilled—freedom for love and service 
24:48 – Choice as happiness: dislodging the assumption pastorally 
26:55 – Cultural pressure points: teen mental health, friendship decline, obligation 
29:15 – Autonomy and assisted dying/euthanasia debates 
31:56 – More choice, more frustration: speech platforms and “Netflix paralysis” 
33:50 – Patience for contested proposals (post-liberalism, nationalism, etc.) 
35:01 – “Freedom for” the common good and a shared human project 
39:13 – Three church roles: solidarity-bringer, subversive fulfillment, alternative city 
43:27 – Augustine’s lesson: church power, loss, and enduring hope 
44:05 – Recommended reading and resources roundup 

Resources Mentioned:
The Gospel After Christendom by Collin Hansen
Making Sense of Us by John Starke, Rebecca McLaughlin, Sam Chan, Trevin Wax, Rachel Gilson, Bob Thune, Glen Scrivener, Michael Keller
The Air We Breathe by Glen Scrivener 
The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt 
The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis 
Democracy and Solidarity by James Davison Hunter 
City of God by Augustine of Hippo
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“Do any of us really want to be in the position where our retirement account grows in sync with the cancer ward?”
That’s the question posed by Robin John about tobacco, responsible for 100 million deaths in the last 100 years. Naturally all of us would say no, we don’t want to benefit from other people dying. Yet as Robin points out in his new book, The Good Investor: How Your Work Can Confront Injustice, Love Your Neighbor, and Bring Healing to the World, many of us do hold mutual funds that invest in tobacco companies. We just don’t know it. Come to think of it, how much do we know about any of our investments, especially in long-term retirement accounts?
Robin John is the cofounder and CEO of Eventide, an asset management firm dedicated to honoring God and investing in companies that create compelling value for the common good. His vision for Eventide's values-based investing shows how our work can benefit everyone and not just bolster the bottom line for a fortunate few. I’d go so far as to say our world can be a much better place if investors—and employees of all kinds—will learn from his example and prioritize what really matters now, and in eternity.
In This Episode
0:00 – Joy, purpose, and God’s design for everyday work
1:49 – Why The Good Investor is ultimately a book about joy
2:48 – Growing up in Kerala, India, and immigrating to the U.S.
4:42 – Community, individualism, and caring for the vulnerable
7:41 – Returning to India and confronting workplace injustice
10:49 – Rethinking success, profit, and the purpose of work
11:53 – Why Christians must examine their investments
14:33 – What does it mean to “root for” a company’s success?
15:36 – Discernment, gray areas, and biblical values in investing
18:07 – Avoiding evil and actively pursuing the common good
19:43 – Weaponry, conscience, and consistency at Eventide
20:13 – The cautionary story of Bill Hwang and ill-gotten gain
23:19 – The false divide between faith and work
25:07 – How investing has changed since 2008
27:14 – What ESG investing is—and where it diverges from Christianity
31:19 – Mission alignment vs. values alignment
32:23 – Encouragement for ordinary, faithful work
34:44 – Legacy, goodness, and hearing “well done”
Resources Mentioned
The Good Investor by Robin John
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At the end of the class on cultural apologetics I teach at Beeson Divinity School, I assign a group exercise. The students need to compose 10 questions and answers from a modern-day catechism. Historically catechisms have emerged during times of cultural transition and confrontation—such as our own, in the aftermath of Christendom and the Enlightenment, awaiting whatever develops in post-liberalism.
So catechisms are not merely a relic of our past but a vital resource for the present that prepares us for the future. I’m delighted with how The New City Catechism, especially our devotional, still serves readers. And I’m delighted by a new volume, The Gospel Way Catechism: 50 Truths that Take on the World, published by Harvest House and written by my friends Trevin Wax and Thomas West.
Tim Keller said, “We need a counter-catechism that explains, refutes, and re-narrates the world’s catechisms to Christians.” And what’s what Trevin and Thomas have done in The Gospel Way Catechism. Trevin is vice president of research and resource development at the North American Mission Board. Thomas is the pastor of Nashville First Baptist Church.
In This Episode
00:00 – What’s wrong with the world: deeper than ignorance or injustice
00:34 – Collin’s “modern catechism” assignment and why catechisms return in transitions
01:03 – Introducing The Gospel Way Catechism and Keller’s “counter catechism” vision
01:36 – Welcoming Trevin Wax and Thomas West
01:54 – “Can Baptists write a catechism?” and Baptist catechesis history
02:57 – Influential catechisms: Keach, Spurgeon, Heidelberg, Luther, Calvin, Westminster
03:23 – Most controversial truths today: sexuality and deeper “me-first” narratives
04:51 – “What has gone wrong?”: ignorance, injustice, expressive individualism
07:14 – Moving beyond whack-a-mole to the Bible’s deeper diagnosis
09:37 – Western self-centeredness and sin as being “curved in on ourselves”
12:24 – Writing process and Keller’s influence: every catechism is counter-catechesis
13:48 – Origin story at The Kilns (C. S. Lewis’s home) and testing in a London church
15:45 – Objections: “we don’t need this” and why cultural frames change catechesis needs
20:18 – Returning from London: seeing American wealth, waste, and politics differently
24:13 – Why Leviticus gets a chapter: sacrifice, scapegoating, and modern idols
27:59 – Catechesis and spiritual formation: tools, Word-centeredness, and Gen Z hunger
31:38 – Encouragement from readers: cultural narratives filtered, doctrine re-centered
33:09 – In 20 years: transhumanism, bioethics, reproductive tech, assisted dying
36:06 – “What is human?” and “What is truth?”—new iterations of old questions
36:39 – Closing thanks and sign-off
Resources Mentioned
The Gospel Way Catechism by Trevin Wax & Thomas West
New City Catechism by Kathy Keller
A Heart Aflame for God by Matthew Bingham
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🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together
🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen
▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207
▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br
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