It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Rob and Jonathan begin a two-part series on football fanzines with Daniel Gray, editor of Nutmeg, host of the When Saturday Comes podcast and author of the new book Fanzine: The Story of Football's Alternative Press.

They each share how they got started: Rob with QPR's A Kick Up the Arse, Jonathan with Sunderland's A Love Supreme and Daniel with Middlesbrough's Fly Me to the Moon. They explore how DIY, punk-influenced magazines gave a voice to supporters who were demonised in the 1980s.
They look at how national titles like When Saturday Comes and Off the Ball, the Football Supporters' Association and London's Sports Pages bookshop built a sense of unity among fans. There are tales of lawsuits, angry chairmen, Brian Clough storming into a newsagent and Jonathan's run-in with the police at Southend. Finally, they reflect on how fanzines launched countless writing careers, including their own.

01:59 What Is a Fanzine?
04:04 Our First Fanzines
11:01 Giving Demonised Fans a Voice
12:57 A Million Copies Sold
16:47 Terrace Talk Begins in York
19:22 Police, Bans and Free Speech
22:53 Bradford and The City Gent
25:51 Foreshadowing Hillsborough
29:12 When Saturday Comes
32:10 Early Pioneers: The Shamrock and Foul
41:19 National Fanzines Unite Fans
43:04 Sports Pages
45:52 Arrested at Southend
48:23 Lawsuits and Angry Chairmen
50:54 A Launchpad for Writers
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Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper conclude their series on Arsène Wenger’s arrival in English football by focusing on his first full season at Arsenal (1997-98), when early doubts, draws, and a UEFA Cup exit gave way to a transformative run to the league and FA Cup double. They discuss how Wenger blended George Graham’s defensive core with signings like Petit and Overmars, and how his pioneering approach to nutrition, recovery, psychology, and scouting created a decisive late-season fitness edge—highlighted by the 1-0 win at Old Trafford that ignited a near-flawless finish. The episode relives the title-clinching 4-0 over Everton capped by Tony Adams’ iconic goal, reflects on Gary Neville’s view of the ’98 side as Arsenal’s toughest, and argues Wenger’s broader legacy in accelerating sports science, data, recruitment, and acceptance of foreign managers in the Premier League.

00:00 Wenger’s Defining Year
00:25 Setting the 97-98 Focus
02:14 New Signings Take Shape
03:28 Sizing Up the Rivals
05:48 Pints and Culture Clash
07:04 Sports Science Revolution
08:34 Psychology and Red to Blue
12:17 Scouting and Club Foundations
15:55 France Ascendant and Clairefontaine
19:28 Family Life and Early Stumbles
24:42 Neville on the 98 Arsenal
26:48 Bergkamp Magic and the Unbeaten Run
28:11 Relentless Run In
30:08 Old Trafford Turning Point
34:36 Title Clincher Everton
35:29 Adams and Bould Magic
38:40 Wenger Emotion Legacy
40:55 Cup Final Newcastle
45:05 World Cup Echoes
46:12 Changing English Football
51:27 Foreign Manager Boom
55:08 Wrap Up and Thanks
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Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Arsène Wenger series by tracing how David Dein first bonded with Wenger—via an improvised London dinner party and charades—before maintaining contact through Monaco, Antibes meetings, and mailed Arsenal VHS tapes and faxes. They cover Wenger’s post-Monaco move to Nagoya Grampus Eight, early struggles and a key interpreter change, then a turnaround to major success, which Wenger credits for reshaping his coaching and lifestyle ideas. The episode explains how Arsenal’s board eventually traveled to Japan in 1996 to recruit him amid post-Rioch chaos, public skepticism (“Arsène Who?”), and a club culture marked by drinking and addiction revelations. They discuss early dietary and training changes, Wenger retaining the famed back line, and his first signings—Vieira, Garde, and Anelka—plus the November 1996 rumour storm and Arsenal’s strong finish that set up the 1997-98 squad.
00:00 Charades With Wenger
00:34 Podcast Setup And Mystery Match
02:40 Arsenal As Gentlemen Club
05:09 Dinner Party First Impression
10:29 Arsene For Arsenal Premonition
11:35 Dein Keeps In Touch
15:05 Bayern Offer And Sacking
17:05 Japan Move And Early Struggles
20:23 Interpreter Switch Turning Point
23:27 Nagoya Success And Lessons
25:18 Secret Japan Courtship
26:20 Rioch Sacked Chaos
28:05 Arsene Who Backlash
33:09 Dressing Room Crisis
36:31 Broccoli Diet Revolution
41:42 Vieira Proves Them Wrong
43:32 Rumors Tabloid Mob
48:12 Anelka Arrival Momentum
51:22 Cool Britannia Parallels
55:05 Wrap Up Next Episode
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Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Arsène Wenger series by tracing his leap from youth coaching at Strasbourg to assistant work under Jean-Marc Guillet at Cannes, where his scouting and relentless workload stood out, before taking his first major job at Nancy with Aldo Platini as director. They discuss Wenger’s early innovations—psychologists, stretching, diet, massage and “invisible training”—and his severity, detail-obsession and frugality, alongside the loneliness and intensity he describes after defeats. Despite Nancy’s limited means and eventual relegation, Wenger earned the Monaco job in 1987, where the glamorous setting contrasted with his ascetic focus. With signings like Glenn Hoddle and Mark Hateley, he introduced advanced recovery and professionalism, won Ligue 1 in 1988, and later built teams featuring Claude Puel, while developing talents such as George Weah, Lilian Thuram and Emmanuel Petit, amid disillusionment about French football’s corruption.

00:00 Hoddle Meets Modern Training
00:47 Wenger Series Returns
01:37 Cannes Assistant Breakthrough
02:50 Motorway Scouting Story
04:08 Workaholic Coaching Routine
05:27 First Team Taste of Power
06:37 Nancy Job and Platini Link
08:03 Invisible Training Revolution
12:21 Youth Development and Frugality
15:09 Severity and Dark Obsession
19:49 Monaco Move and Glamour
23:23 Royals and Monaco Memories
25:46 Why Hoddle and Hateley Fit
26:54 Hateley Meets Wenger
27:46 Hoddle Hijacked From PSG
30:17 Training Revolution In Monaco
33:28 Beer Smoking And Culture Clash
34:46 Tactics And Touchline Temper
38:00 Monaco Glory And Marseille Shadow
43:17 Annie And Private Life
44:48 Weah Thuram Petit Talent Spotting
49:03 Highbury Encounter With Dein
52:31 Next Episode And Wrap
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Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin a four-part series marking 30 years since Arsène Wenger’s arrival at Arsenal, framing him—alongside David Dein—as a key catalyst for the Premier League’s shift toward foreign managers, multicultural squads, and modern nutrition and sports science. They trace Wenger’s roots in rural, war-scarred Alsace on the French-German border: his parents’ hard-working life, his father’s forced Nazi conscription, the Catholic village culture, and Wenger’s intense, self-aware obsession with football. The episode explores how he learned the game through unsupervised street football and bistro conversations, a serious illness at 14, and his desire to escape village life. Wenger’s breakthrough came at 19 after being spotted in a heavy defeat and joining Mutzig, leading to university studies in Strasbourg, a stint learning English in Cambridge, a squad role in Strasbourg’s 1979 title win, and an early move into coaching—already using a psychiatrist with youth players.

00:00 Wenger Obsession Intro
01:23 Why Wenger Changed England
03:41 Alsace War Shadow
07:30 Village Roots and Work Ethic
10:49 French Football Culture Explained
16:18 Street Football and Brother Guy
18:59 Faith Philosophy and Le Professor
24:32 Illness Growth and Escape
27:19 Bistro Lessons La Croix d'Or
28:53 Wine and Bistro Roots
29:37 Bar Talk and Escape
30:09 Football Dreams in Dittlingen
33:00 Mutzig Breakthrough
34:13 Max Hild Mentor
36:44 Dancing and Philosophy
39:55 University and Class Divide
42:10 Strasbourg Squad Years
43:29 Cambridge English Leap
46:47 Coaching Begins at Strasbourg
47:31 Total Football Influences
50:11 Holistic Coaching Mindset
51:30 Wrap Up and Next Episode
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