It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of a two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Cass Pennant - former West Ham United Inter City Firm member who later became an author and film producer. They discuss director Ian Stuttard (known as “Butch”) and his 1985 groundbreaking documentary 'Hooligan', which challenged the stereotype of hooligans. Cass explains how Stuttard earned access by spending months with the ICF without a camera, building trust, and later filming from inside the action. The episode also covers the Thatcher-era context, the film’s controversial release and its wider impact on how 'firms' were understood. We finish the episode with Cass reflecting on Stuttard’s wider documentary career, their later partnership in a production company, and Stuttard’s lasting legacy. Join us next week for the history of football hooliganism.

You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan.

00:38 Introducing Cass Pennant and the Documentary
03:21 How Ian Stuttard Got Access to the ICF
11:08 Trust Test: A Year With No Camera
15:28 1985 Context: Thatcher’s Britain, Youth Culture, and Misread ‘Casuals’
24:19 Inside the Footage: Street Fighting, Early Video Cameras, and Codes of Conduct
26:23 Butch’s War-Correspondent Mindset
33:22 Back in the Studio: How ‘Hooligan’ Got Its Unfiltered Authenticity
34:02 Pre-Broadcast Panic: Calls to Ban the Film & Fears of Copycats
40:18 From Gangs to ‘Firms’
45:33 Inside Whitehall: Giving Evidence to the Popplewell Inquiry
54:59 Why It Faded: Fans Wanting Out, Politics, Policing & the Premier League Era
58:42 Stuttard's Legacy: Funeral Reflections, Final Bucket List Match & Lasting Impact

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're on Patreon! As a treat to our loyal listeners, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.

In a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through the World Cup! This will be dropping every Wednesday on Patreon - so we've gone with the imaginative title of World Cup Wednesdays!

If you join, you'll also be getting ad-free main episodes, loads more bonus episodes, magazine retrospectives and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be supporting the show and connecting with the "It Was..." community.

Patreon subscribers get:

BONUS EDITIONS
Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories.

WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS!
Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament.

RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION
Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past.

MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHAN
Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A.

JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITY
Connect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show.

What’s included
Exclusive content
Q&As
Ad-free episodes
Private community

Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What it Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into Pep Guardiola’s story at Manchester City 10 years on from his appointment at the club and the difficulties he would face in his opening season. Join us as we explore the highs and lows, from the thrilling victories to the unexpected defeats. We discuss his controversial decisions, key matches, and the significant signings that shaped the team's future. Can Pep's philosophy adapt to the rigors of English football? Discover how one of the world's most acclaimed coaches navigated his debut season and set the stage for a legacy at the Etihad. Don't miss out on the in-depth analysis and special bonus content available exclusively on our Patreon page, following the link below:

https://www.patreon.com/cw/ItWas

00:00 Exciting News: Join Our Patreon Community!
02:51 Introduction
04:47 Pep Guardiola's First Season Struggles
07:56 The Tactical Challenges and Key Matches
15:52 Pep's Appointment and Early Expectations
22:02 Transfer Market Moves and Squad Challenges
27:53 Yaya Touré's Controversial Exit
28:56 Manchester City's Winning Streak
30:34 Champions League Group Stage Drama
32:02 Pep's Concerns and Criticisms
43:49 Champions League Humiliation
51:44 End of a Disappointing Season
53:19 Looking Ahead: Pep's Future at City

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're launching on Patreon! And to kick things off, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.

In this first episode in a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through historic issues of football magazines - starting with Shoot!

If you join, you'll also be getting all of our main episdoes ad free, bonus episodes, World Cup countdown and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be supporting the show and connecting with the "It Was..." community.

Patreon subscribers get:

BONUS EDITIONS
Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories.

WORLD CUP COLLECTION
Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament.

RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION
Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past.

MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHAN
Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A.

JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITY
Connect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show.

What’s included
Exclusive content
Q&As
Ad-free episodes
Private community

Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are excited to announce that we will be launching a Patreon on Friday 6th February, where you can get bonus episodes and exclusive content. Follow the link below to sign up:

Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. On today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue exploring one of the most controversial football transfers - Luis Figo's move from Barcelona to Real Madrid. In this second part of the two-part series, they delve into the public and private turmoil surrounding the transfer, including the dramatic fallout at both clubs, fan reactions, and the momentous pig's head incident. They also examine the long-term impact on Figo's career and friendships, and the profound changes this transfer spurred in football. Don't miss this thrilling conclusion!

00:00 Exciting News and our Patreon Launch
02:51 Introduction to the Episode
04:28 Speculation and Media Frenzy
06:17 Election Drama and Figo's Dilemma
07:30 The Final Decision
09:52 The Fallout and Consequences
11:51 The Election Results
13:56 Figo's Reluctance and Pressure
16:26 The Persuasion Tactics
19:20 The Final Agreement
28:19 Florentino's Persuasion Tactics
31:22 Figo's Announcement and Gaspar's Reaction
33:14 The Fallout in Barcelona
40:57 The First El Clásico After the Transfer
43:49 The Infamous Pig's Head Incident
48:56 The Lingering Legacy and Impact
53:20 Figo's Reflections and Conclusion

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.