The 404 Media Podcast

I recently traveled to Kenya for a journalism and AI conference. While I was there, I really wanted to meet with Michael Geoffrey Asia, the secretary general of the Data Labelers Association. Data Labeling is a huge job in Kenya. Data labelers are the people who train AI, and who also work on ensuring the outputs are accurate. In some cases, data labelers are themselves pretending to be AI, in order to train AI. Often, data labelers don’t know exactly what they’re working on, because the work usually goes through a platform, a subcontractor, or a combination of both. So basically they can be presented with a backend where they’re asked to perform tasks or answer questions; in some cases their answers may be presented in real time as AI.

Data labeling is notoriously brutal and underpaid work. Workers sometimes earn as little as a few dollars a day, work under algorithmic management, and, because they’re sometimes trying to train AI what not to do or show, they are often shown graphic, violent, or sexual content for hours at a time. It’s kind of similar to content moderation jobs, and lots of people do both data labeling and content moderation, or switch back and forth between the industries. It’s such a big thing in Kenya that I mentioned it to the driver who took me to meet Michael for this interview, and she told me that she too was a data labeler, as are many of her friends.

Michael has since become critical at the Data Labelers Association, a group that is fighting to organize people who do data labeling work and who is advocating for better working conditions, higher pay, and more protections for data labelers. I met Michael at a coworking space in Nairobi in a very tiny room, so I’m not on camera after this, but here’s my conversation with Michael.

The Emotional Labor Behind AI Intimacy by Michael Geoffrey Asia

YouTube Version: https://youtu.be/QH654YPxvEE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We start this week with exciting news: we bought a Super Bowl ad! For… $2,550. We explain how. After the break, Jason tells us about Ring’s recently launched Search Party feature, and gives us a very timely reminder of what Ring really is and how we got here. In the subscribers-only section, Joseph breaks down Lockdown Mode and how it kept the FBI out of a Washington Post reporter’s phone.

Timestamps:

0:00 - Intro

2:49 - Watch 404 Media’s Super Bowl Ad

27:29 - With Ring, American Consumers Built a Surveillance Dragnet:

SUBSCRIBER'S STORY - FBI Couldn’t Get into WaPo Reporter’s iPhone Because It Had Lockdown Mode Enabled
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/0JK-VSrtlWw

Watch 404 Media’s Super Bowl Ad

With Ring, American Consumers Built a Surveillance Dragnet

FBI Couldn’t Get into WaPo Reporter’s iPhone Because It Had Lockdown Mode Enabled

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Patrick Klepek on the reality of parenting in the age of Roblox and YouTube.

I listened to hours of podcasts about how screen time affects kids of all ages and how parents should manage screen time but I still felt completely unprepared for this challenge when I had a kid. 

I think the reason for that is that there’s a lot of reporting about how screens are impacting kids, and a lot of reporting about the research into this subject, but rarely did I encounter a conversation between parents that talks about how any of that information can be realistically applied in the real world.  

This week on the podcast we’re joined by Patrick Klepek in order to have the kind of conversation I wish I heard before I became a parent, but I think there’s something here for everyone. Patrick is the cofounder of Remap, a website and one of my favorite podcasts about video games, and the writer behind Crossplay, a newsletter about the intersection of parenting and games. Patrick is also my former colleague at Vice, back when I worked at Motherboard and he at Waypoint. Patrick has been reporting about video games for most of his life, is a wonderful writer, and a parent. I find his perspective on many of these issues—screen time, parental controls, YouTube, Roblox—extremely useful and interesting, and I hope you do as well. 

YouTube Version: https://youtu.be/LjK1Swsm1m4

Listen to the weekly podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. 

Become a paid subscriber for early access to these interview episodes and to power our journalism. If you become a paid subscriber, check your inbox for an email from our podcast host Transistor for a link to the subscribers-only version! You can also add that subscribers feed to your podcast app of choice and never miss an episode that way. The email should also contain the subscribers-only unlisted YouTube link for the extended video version too. It will also be in the show notes in your podcast player.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We start this week with Sam and Emanuel’s article about the latest Epstein dump, and how it’s really a disaster in a lot of ways. After the break, Matthew runs us through Moltbot and its terrible security. After the break, Emanuel breaks down his two recent stories about a fundamental issue exposing a bunch of very sensitive data.

0:00 - Intro

2:19 - DOJ Released Unredacted Nude Images in Epstein Files

25:08 - Silicon Valley’s Favorite New AI Agent Has Serious Security Flaws

34:55 - Exposed Moltbook Database Let Anyone Take Control of Any AI Agent on the Site

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/gDcOOP_Y9cU

DOJ Released Unredacted Nude Images in Epstein Files

Silicon Valley’s Favorite New AI Agent Has Serious Security Flaws

Exposed Moltbook Database Let Anyone Take Control of Any AI Agent on the Site

App for Quitting Porn Leaked Users' Masturbation Habits

Massive AI Chat App Leaked Millions of Users Private Conversations

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week Joseph talks to Samuel Bagg, assistant professor of political science at the University of South Carolina. Bagg recently wrote a fascinating essay, linked below, about how the problem with lots of things might be knowledge-based (people believing stuff that’s wrong or dangerous) but the solution is not more knowledge. It’s all about social identity. This is an incredibly interesting discussion, and definitely check out more of Bagg’s writing.


The Problem is Epistemic. The Solution is Not


The Dispersion of Power: A Critical Realist Theory of Democracy

YouTube version:  https://youtu.be/lNKOqp-rZL8

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices