The No Film School Podcast

Writer-director Sam Hayes and actor-filmmaker Michael Vlamis break down the making and unconventional release of Pools, a coming-of-age film built around an overnight pool-hopping adventure. They discuss the logistical challenges of shooting underwater on an indie schedule, building an ensemble cast around specific actors, and why traditional distribution offers pushed the team toward a hands-on grassroots strategy. Sam explains how pool-party premieres, years of networking, and a wine-fueled cold email helped Pools find a new audience through the Letterboxd Video Store, while Michael compares the scrappy production of Pools with working on Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey. They also share lessons on preserving release momentum, budgeting for marketing, navigating film festivals, and finding an audience when streamers are not an option.

In this episode, No Film School's GG Hawkins, Sam Hayes, and Michael Vlamis discuss...

How the image of a glowing pool at night became the foundation for Pools

Writing characters with specific actors like Michael Vlamis, Odessa A'zion, and Tyler Alvarez in mind

Building chemistry within an ensemble cast on a limited indie prep schedule

The complications of filming overnight pool scenes and shooting underwater

How a breath coach helped Odessa A'zion increase her underwater breath hold from roughly 15 seconds to a minute and a half

Why Sam turned down disappointing traditional distribution offers and pursued a more hands-on service deal

Creating pool-party premieres that made screenings feel like events rather than another movie release

How Sam became a top 0.01% Partiful user while organizing approximately 25 promotional events

Why filmmakers need to actively build relationships with festival programmers, distributors, critics, and other members of the indie film community

The mistake of delaying Pools' TVOD release in hopes of benefiting from the attention around Odessa A'zion's other projects

Why maintaining momentum and giving audiences an immediate way to watch a film matters after theatrical release

How the crowded TVOD marketplace makes discoverability especially difficult for independent movies

The wine-fueled cold email Sam wrote to Letterboxd after feeling like the film was running out of distribution options

Why Letterboxd's curated Video Store offered Pools a way to stand apart from algorithm-driven platforms

How the film's Letterboxd rating improved as more viewers discovered it

Michael's experience moving between Pools, his indie feature Crossword, and Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey

Why a giant production can still feel surprisingly scrappy and responsive on set

The difference between a film's production budget and the marketing budget needed to actually break through

Why indie filmmakers cannot build their entire distribution strategy around getting acquired by a major streamer

How real-world relationships can turn previous distribution passes into new opportunities

Why Sam recommends budgeting for marketing before production begins

The danger of submitting a rough cut to major film festivals before the movie is truly ready

Michael's approach to finding grounded comedy without forcing jokes or overthinking a performance

Memorable Quotes:

“You need something fun, especially for an indie movie, to, like, build community around the film and with each other and make it about more than just the movie itself.”

“As soon as the people start watching the movie, you want people to be able to see the movie.”

“You can't rely on it. You have to find ways to, like, find your own audience with an indie film.”

“Build in a marketing budget before you shoot. Like, have that be a part of the money that you raise.”

Guests:

Sam Hayes

Michael Vlamis

Resources:

Pools on Letterboxd

Rent Pools on the Letterboxd Video Store

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Tribeca Festival Director and SVP of Programming Cara Cusumano joins No Film School’s GG Hawkins to reflect on 25 years of Tribeca and explain what independent filmmakers should understand about today’s festival landscape. Cusumano discusses Tribeca’s evolution from its post-9/11 roots into a multidisciplinary storytelling festival, how programmers evaluate nearly 14,000 submissions, why filmmakers should build relationships with their peers instead of chasing gatekeepers, and how festivals are responding to shifts in film distribution and audience behavior. She also shares how emerging filmmakers can participate in festival communities even without a film in the lineup and why creating distinctive work matters more than waiting for the perfect opportunity.

In this episode, No Film School's GG Hawkins and guest Cara Cusumano discuss...

How Tribeca’s founding mission of community, connection, and celebrating movies has endured across 25 years

Cara’s path from attending the first Tribeca Festival as a film student to becoming Festival Director and SVP of Programming

Why networking is really about building relationships with your contemporaries and growing together throughout your careers

How programmers view filmmakers and why they are actively looking for work to champion rather than trying to keep filmmakers out

What makes a project feel distinctly right for Tribeca, from independent storytelling to memorable audience experiences

How Tribeca manages and evaluates nearly 14,000 film and project submissions

Why passionate advocacy inside the programming room can matter even when programmers disagree about a film

Why festival feedback is complicated and how programming decisions can depend on the composition of the entire lineup, not simply the quality of an individual film

How Tribeca expanded beyond features and shorts into television, podcasts, games, VR, immersive work, and creator-driven storytelling

The value of human curation as an alternative to algorithmic discovery

Why Tribeca is interested in projects that blur the boundaries between film, games, immersive media, podcasts, and other formats

How the role of film festivals is changing as selling an independent film directly out of a festival becomes more difficult

Why festivals increasingly function as places for talent discovery, career building, networking, and demonstrating audience demand

How the in-person festival experience can create moments that cannot be replicated through individual at-home viewing

How emerging filmmakers can participate in Tribeca through programs like the Storytelling Summit even if their work is not selected

Why Cara hopes Tribeca remains flexible enough to respond to new forms of storytelling that do not yet have an established industry category

Her advice to stop waiting for the perfect moment, keep collaborating, and make work because of the story rather than its potential festival or distribution outcome

Memorable Quotes:

“It's building a relationship with your contemporaries, and then you all grow. Like anyone who I know who has a position of power is only 'cause we were in the trenches as assistants 20 years ago.”

“Programmers want to discover films. They live in fear of missing something amazing. They want to build those relationships.”

“The industry player's coming less to buy completed projects than they are to scout future talent.”

“There's never a perfect moment and, and it- the more that you can be creating and collaborating, and don't think about, like, what festival is this going to get into or what's the distribution going to be?”

Guest:

Cara Cusumano on IMDb

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Fiscal sponsorship can give independent filmmakers access to tax-deductible donations, in-kind contributions, corporate partnerships, and other fundraising opportunities without changing how they monetize their films after completion. Host GG Hawkins talks with filmmaker Lindsay St. Laurent and New Hollywood's Ian Mark about how fiscal sponsorship works, how to approach donors, and why building sustainable working conditions into an indie production matters. They also discuss tax incentives, pre-production strategies that can prevent burnout, protecting cast and crew on low-budget sets, and creating long-term relationships with supporters.

In this episode, No Film School's GG Hawkins and guests Lindsay St. Laurent and Ian Mark discuss...

How fiscal sponsorship allows filmmakers to fundraise through a nonprofit while maintaining the ability to operate commercially once the film is completed

Why tax-deductible donations can give filmmakers a different fundraising pitch than traditional equity investment

How in-kind donations can help cover production needs such as equipment, food, catering, and crafty

How fiscal sponsorship can add legitimacy when approaching companies and potential partners

New Hollywood's requirements for sponsored productions, including reasonable workdays, adequate turnaround times, and real meal breaks

Why sustainable set culture and crew wellbeing can improve both the production experience and the finished film

How table reads, storyboards, and strong pre-production planning can help filmmakers avoid long shoot days and burnout

Why directors should communicate with department heads early and build schedules that make their jobs easier

The importance of considering the emotional demands placed on actors when scheduling difficult scenes

Why cast and crew members should understand their rights, establish boundaries, and read their contracts even on non-union productions

How a more competitive grant landscape and changing corporate priorities are affecting independent film financing

Why filmmakers raising larger budgets should research production tax credits and rebates as part of their financing strategy

How to approach potential donors by focusing on genuine relationships rather than treating every conversation as a one-time ask

Why filmmakers should present their projects as already having momentum rather than appearing dependent on a single donor

How getting the first company, donor, or organization to say yes can make additional partnerships easier to secure

Memorable Quotes:

“So you get to fundraise as a nonprofit when you're starting, and then still operate as a for-profit entity once you have a film that you're ready to take to market.”

“Just for our listeners, like if somebody is pushing you in a way that is not okay, you can say no, even if it's non-union.”

“But like nobody is going to advocate for you on those sets except yourself, so it is good to know your rights.”

“The first yes is the hardest one to get. Once you get that yes, the other yeses just start coming.”

Guests:

Lindsay St. Laurent

Ian Mark

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Editor Jon Fine joins GG Hawkins to discuss shaping The Revisionist, a dialogue-driven drama directed by Alex Vlack and starring Alison Brie, André Holland, and Dustin Hoffman. Fine explains how the cast’s performances transformed the tone of the script, how music and abrupt sonic interruptions helped place viewers inside a writer’s creative process, and how restructuring the film made its shifting layers of fiction and reality clearer. He also shares his Premiere Pro workflow, his approach to testing editorial ideas, and why emerging filmmakers should learn by making their own projects.

In this episode, No Film School's GG Hawkins and guest Jon Fine discuss...

How Fine’s longtime creative partnership with director Alex Vlack led to The Revisionist

Discovering unexpected humor and tragedy in the actors’ interpretations of the script

Finding a consistent tone across four distinct central performances

The creative advantages of having an editor and director work together in the same room

Using Philip Klein’s score to evoke the interior world of Alison Brie’s writer character

Interrupting music with hard cuts to create surprise, humor, and playfulness

Organizing scenes, takes, transcripts, and searchable dialogue in Adobe Premiere Pro

Building a fast first assembly that closely followed the original screenplay

Restructuring the film to make the writer’s influence over the unfolding story more apparent

Using producer, audience, and actor feedback throughout the iterative editing process

Balancing the ensemble while keeping Alison Brie’s character as the story’s emotional anchor

Finding usable moments within Dustin Hoffman’s improvisations

Why limited locations, a small cast, and dialogue-heavy scenes can benefit independent filmmakers

Auditioning editorial ideas quickly instead of becoming overly attached to one version

Creating an editing environment with natural light, plants, instruments, and opportunities to step outside

What traditional editors can learn from filmmakers cutting polished videos on their phones

Why the most effective way to learn editing is to make films with friends

Memorable Quotes:

“I still think the best way to make a film is to be in the room with someone.”

“We wanted it to feel like you were inside of the head of a writer. You’re in her mind.”

“I’m really in favor of just auditioning ideas and trying things.”

“I think the best way to learn is in practice.”

Guests:

Jon Fine

Resources:

The Revisionist on IMDb

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Most filmmakers wait until after production to identify their audience and develop a distribution strategy. In this partner episode, GG Hawkins speaks with Greenlight Coverage founder Jack Zhang and Level 33 Entertainment Vice President Andreas Olavarria about evaluating a screenplay’s commercial potential before production begins. They explain how AI-assisted script coverage can support—not replace—human decision-making, what distributors look for when assessing independent films, and how the Greenlight List gives screenwriters a path toward $100,000 in equity financing and guaranteed distribution.

In this episode, No Film School's GG Hawkins and guests Jack Zhang and Andreas Olavarria discuss...

Why filmmakers should consider their target audience, key art, trailer, genre, and distribution strategy while developing the screenplay

How Greenlight Coverage uses data science and AI-assisted analysis to evaluate screenplays

How Jack developed the platform using data from thousands of films and hundreds of millions of audience data points

Why AI script coverage should function as an initial evaluation tool rather than a replacement for human readers

How the Greenlight List combines an algorithmic first pass with evaluation by experienced industry professionals

What separates a well-written screenplay from a commercially viable independent film

Why contained concepts can be more practical for independent filmmakers and investors

How originality, plot construction, character development, theme, and audience positioning affect a project’s score

Why low-budget horror still requires a specific audience and marketing strategy

The built-in audiences for horror, thrillers, romance, and Hallmark- or Lifetime-style films

How theatrical, TVOD, SVOD, and AVOD distribution windows affect independent film development

Why filmmakers may need to hook viewers within the first five minutes on ad-supported streaming platforms

How cast members, executive producers, and creators with established audiences can strengthen a film’s marketability

How the Greenlight List offers its grand prize winner $100,000 in equity financing and guaranteed distribution through Level 33 Entertainment

Why writers should use submission deadlines as concrete milestones for completing their screenplays

Memorable Quotes:

“I think it’s so important that filmmakers look at what the end product will be and how they’re going to connect that film, that story, with a target audience.”

“It has to have a specific audience itch that you’re trying to scratch, or it’s just going to be one of the thousands of films produced out there sitting on the shelf, unfortunately.”

“The film itself should hook the audience in whatever genre in the first five minutes.”

“Don’t miss a deadline. Hit the submit button. Don’t miss the deadline.”

Guests:

Jack Zhang — Founder of Greenlight Coverage

Andreas Olavarria — Vice President at Level 33 Entertainment

Resources:

The Greenlight List

Greenlight Coverage

Level 33 Entertainment

Find No Film School everywhere:

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