Unfamous with Justin Tranter

How did a Korean drinking game become ROSÉ and Bruno Mars’ “APT.”, and why did Lizzo’s “About Damn Time” take months to get right?

Grammy-winning songwriter Theron Thomas and producer Jeff “Gitty” Gitelman join Justin Tranter to share the stories behind those hits, Jessie Murph’s “Wild Ones,” and the four years Theron spent focused on a Rihanna album that never came out.

They also explore why trusting your instincts, giving honest creative feedback, and helping artists discover their identity matter more than chasing a formula.

CHAPTERS

00:00 The untold stories behind the hits00:34 Welcome to Unfamous07:18 Theron's first $5,000 song11:27 Gitty's first guitar20:15 The story behind “APT.”24:42 Jessie Murph's “Wild Ones”31:03 Why “About Damn Time” took months37:43 When to fight for a creative idea49:29 Four years focused on Rihanna54:28 Gag or Drag1:05:23 Why Theron studies songs he dislikes1:10:41 Building their own music company

Subscribe to Unfamous with Justin Tranter for new conversations every Wednesday about the untold stories and creative collaborations behind the music and pop culture you love.

CREDITS

Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter

Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart

Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart

Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart

Director: Morgan T. Stuart

Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary

Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri

Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha

Special thanks to Jimmy Knehans and Mark Beaven.

Chat with the Unfamous team: https://tr.ee/76BBYT
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Does understanding what works make the art stronger, or can knowing too much flatten the feeling?

In this Unfamous minisode, Grammy-nominated hit songwriter Justin Tranter and co-creator Morgan T. Stuart dig deeper into some of the debates sparked by clips from the show: song math, the first five seconds of a hit, TikTok, artist promotion and whether the pressure to optimize everything is changing the art itself.

Justin explains why understanding melodic structure can make a great song more effective but can never manufacture the original idea, why naturally gifted songwriters often follow musical patterns without realizing it, and why grabbing someone’s attention is not the same thing as rushing a song.

They also look at the business surrounding the art. Has TikTok actually made executives more willing to take creative risks? Should artists learn how their own marketing works before they lose access to the team doing it? And is today’s pressure to “make content” really that different from the resistance artists once had to making music videos?

From the Gershwins and Patty Griffin to Madonna, Kurt Cobain and the modern pop machine, Justin and Morgan ask where structure and strategy can help, and where optimization has to stop.

Chapters

0:00 Are We Optimizing the Art Out of Music?

1:14 Welcome to Unfamous

1:52 Why We’re Having This Conversation

3:38 CRAFT: Do the Rules Kill the Feeling?

6:08 The Subconscious Rules Behind Great Songs

7:54 Why a Great Chorus Can Still Feel Weak

9:46 ATTENTION: Does a Song Have to Win You in 5 Seconds?

10:59 Were Pop Songs Always This Short?

11:50 A Word From Rula

14:16 From Two-Minute Songs to Seven-Minute Songs

14:58 SOCIAL MEDIA: Has TikTok Made Big Creative Swings Safer?

17:22 PROMOTION: Hasn’t This Always Been Part of the Job?

18:47 Kurt Cobain, Madonna and “Making Content”

20:33 CREATIVITY: What Should Never Be Optimized?

21:57 Why Structure Still Matters

24:00 Why We Want to Make More of These Minisodes

24:44 Follow, Subscribe + See You Next Wednesday

Credits

Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter

Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart

Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart

Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart

Director: Morgan T. Stuart

Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary

Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri

Camera Assistant: Julia Gargano

Special thanks to Mark Beavan and Jimmy Knehans.

Chat with the Unfamous team: https://tr.ee/XMEBI7
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Sweet Disposition” started with someone practicing scales in a tiny rehearsal room. The music came together almost immediately. The lyrics were finished the next day.

In this episode of Unfamous, The Temper Trap join Justin Tranter to break down how one of their most enduring songs was actually written — and what happened after something created almost entirely on instinct became the song everyone wanted them to recreate.

They talk about reaching a point where, after nearly 15 years of writing, recording and touring, they were spent — creatively, relationally, all of it — and what happened after time apart gave them the opportunity to get back into a room together with no expectations. Within the first hour, they felt a spark again.

The band also gets into what more than two decades of making music, stepping away and finding their way back to the collaboration has taught them about ego, compromise, resentment and trust, including the early “Temper Trap manifesto” that still shapes how they think about the work: it doesn’t matter who comes up with the part. It matters whether it’s the best part for the song.

It’s a conversation about writing a great song — but even more about what it takes to return to a creative partnership with enough perspective to make something new.

Chapters:

0:00 Preview: “Sweet Disposition,” Burnout & the Spark
0:38 Meet The Temper Trap
5:49 Why Being in a Band Is the Ultimate Collaboration
9:01 When a Song Keeps Refusing to Be Finished
9:53 How “Sweet Disposition” Was Written
14:38 Can You Recreate Your Biggest Hit?
16:59 When “Sweet Disposition” Found a New Generation
21:09 What Happens When a Band Runs Out of Fuel?
23:40 What Actually Brought The Temper Trap Back
26:25 How a Solo Song Became a Temper Trap Song
28:38 Compromise, Ego and the Creative Marriage
32:25 Serve the Song, Not Your Ego
33:38 The Temper Trap Manifesto
34:36 Does Great Art Need Conflict?
38:37 From Retail Jobs to Starting The Temper Trap
43:56 The 10-Hour Drives That Built the Band
46:44 The Songs That Made Them Want to Be Musicians
54:03 What They’d Tell Their Younger Selves
56:33 The Skill That Matters Beyond Talent

Credits:

Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter
Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart
Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart
Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart

Director: Morgan T. Stuart
Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary
Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri
Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha

Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, and Lily Golightly.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why do “Good Luck, Babe!” and “Sorry” feel so immediately satisfying?In this Unfamous recap, Justin Tranter breaks down the songwriting math behind both songs — from where each section enters in the phrase to how verse, pre-chorus and chorus are built to feel distinct.

Justin and Unfamous co-creator Morgan Stuart also revisit their conversation with Bongo ByTheWay and Ant Clemons about lyric structure, producer psychology, interpolation, publishing and artist development — including why structure can actually create more freedom for creatives, when an interpolation is worth giving up publishing for, and what artists need to be prepared for beyond making great music.

Plus: Paul McCartney taking 100% of the publishing, why emotional production matters as much as technical production, and the creative decisions behind songs that actually connect.

Chapters

0:00 Paul McCartney, Producer Psychology & the Rules Behind Hits

0:42 Why the Behind-the-Scenes Creators Connected

1:52 Paul McCartney Took 100% of the Publishing

3:24 Sample vs. Interpolation: What You’re Actually Paying For

5:32 When Should You Kill an Interpolation?

7:46 The Producer’s Job Is Emotional, Too

11:58 The Song Map: Who, What, Where, When, Why

14:22 Why Structure Creates More Creative Freedom

15:22 The Melodic Math Behind “Good Luck, Babe!” and “Sorry”

19:26 What Music Is Missing: Artist Development

21:22 Singer-Songwriters Need Development Too

23:33 How Do You Prepare an Artist for Success?

Credits

Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter

Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart

Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart

Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart

Director: Morgan T. Stuart

Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary

Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri

Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha

Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, & Cory Jasin.

Chat with the Unfamous team: https://tr.ee/jwPZ3j
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The best-looking photo can still be the wrong cover. And one bad compromise can turn a bold creative idea beige.

The Hollywood Reporter’s Maer Roshan and Alison Edmond join Justin Tranter to reveal what actually happens behind some of Hollywood’s biggest covers—from Angelina Jolie asking them to redo an entire lighting setup after one shot, to orchestrating The White Lotus cast across two coasts and pulling together a Mikey Madison shoot the morning after her Oscar win.

They break down how a cover goes from an idea to the final image, what happens when talent or publicists push back, why the most beautiful photograph doesn’t always serve the story, and why great creative work can fall apart when too many people get a vote.

It’s a conversation about taste, trust, fighting for an idea, knowing when to defer to someone else’s expertise, and developing enough experience to stop second-guessing your own.

CHAPTERS

0:00 Why the Best Photo Can Still Lose

1:16 Meet The Hollywood Reporter’s Maer Roshan & Alison Edmond

7:31 How a Hollywood Reporter Cover Actually Gets Made

11:08 Why the Most Beautiful Photo Isn’t Always the Right One

13:21 Photographing a Controversial Celebrity Story

17:07 Why Celebrities Care So Much About Their Image

18:03 Angelina Jolie Made Them Change the Entire Lighting Setup

19:44 What Happens When the Talent Has a Bad Idea?

23:15 How Do You Avoid a PR-Controlled Interview?

27:16 The Insane Logistics Behind The White Lotus Cover

30:11 Shooting Mikey Madison the Morning After Her Oscar Win

32:08 How Do You Create an Iconic Image in the iPhone Era?

37:05 The Most Common Way a Great Idea Gets Ruined

38:47 Why Creativity Dies by Committee

40:17 How to Fight for a Great Idea Without Killing the Collaboration

44:39 How Alison Edmond Learned to Stop Doubting Her Taste

49:31 Their First Jobs in the Magazine Business

52:09 How They Spot Talent Before Everyone Else Does

54:16 Why a Print Cover Still Means Something

56:08 “Don’t Be Stupid”: Alison’s Path to British Vogue

59:28 Growing Up With Censored Magazines in Iran

1:00:46 Why “Manifesting” Still Requires an Obscene Amount of Work

1:03:08 The Prince Harry Cover That Got a Letter From the Palace

1:04:38 How The Hollywood Reporter Balances Print, Digital & Social

1:09:01 Gag or Drag: Celebrity Creative Directors, Publicists & Bad Covers

1:14:14 The Career Advice They Wish They’d Learned Earlier

CREDITS:

Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter
Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart
Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart
Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart

Director: Morgan T. Stuart
Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary
Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri
Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha

Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, Luke Burland + 2BEntertainment.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices