Future Learning Design Podcast

How did Taiwan become one of the world’s most interesting places for educational and societal innovation?
In January 2025, Manda Scott interviewed Audrey Tang, Taiwan’s youngest ever Minister of State and its first Digital Minister (2016–2024). I was fascinated to hear Audrey talk about how education in Taiwan has evolved, and ever since I’ve wanted to make an episode about the history of experimental education that led to these developments.
My wonderful guest this week is Mr Tang Guang-Hua. Mr Tang and his wife, Li Yaqing, have been instrumental in Taiwan’s education reform movement for the last 40 years, including homeschooling their own children, Audrey and Tsung-hao.
Mr Tang spent twenty-five years as a journalist and editor at the China Times during Taiwan’s transition to democracy. Since the 1990s, he has been closely involved in Taiwan’s experimental education movement. He helped establish its first community college and supported the founding of democratic schools. In 2010, he founded Optimism Academy, which teaches philosophy to teenagers through Socratic dialogue.
His family has contributed in many significant ways to building a democratic Taiwan, and it was an absolute privilege to hear what he has learned from this experience.
In this conversation, we discuss:
Growing up by the sea, and how a happy childhood shaped his educational ideals

The community college movement and deepening civil society

Self-directed learning and raising children who didn’t fit the school system

Multiple pathways for young people, and the “inverted pyramid” of learning

Teaching Plato and Confucius to teenagers through Socratic dialogue

How experimental ideas reached mainstream schools through the 2014 Experimental Education Acts and the 108 Curriculum Guidelines

What AI means for education

Why optimism is essential for anyone working in education

Mr Tang speaks in Mandarin Chinese, with English subtitles throughout.
You can find the full episode here on our YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/PupEeq_PeVg
I would also highly recommend the brilliant documentary about the Tang family, Good Enough Ancestor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idudNrLy8ek

It's all too easy to come up with scripted and pre-packaged solutions to educational challenges that are complex, deeply human and relational. My guest this week has been a powerful voice globally for a long time, advocating for a more nuanced and thoughtful view for enhancing spaces for deeper learning. It is my huge pleasure to introduce Professor Jal Mehta of the Harvard Graduate School of Education who joined me this week to talk about his new book, A Chance to Solve Their Own Problems: Inside the New Methods Seeking to Remake Public Schools written with a group of other fantastic co-authors (Maxwell Yurkofsky, Kim Frumin, Amelia Peterson, Rebecca Horwitz-Willis, James Jack) and based on extensive empirical research across the US and Canada. 
Jal Mehta is the Gregory R. Anrig Professor of Educational Leadership at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. A sociologist by training, his work focuses on how to remake the industrial-era school system into a modern learning organization that creates passion and purpose for both students and adults.
He is the author, most recently, with Sarah Fine, of In Search of Deeper Learning: Inside the Effort to Remake the American High School, which won the Grawemeyer Award for excellent public writing on education. Mehta is also a leading scholar on the need to professionalize education, explored most thoroughly in his 2013 book The Allure of Order. Mehta is the faculty director of the Deeper Learning Institute, which works with schools, districts, states and provinces across the United States and around the world to transform schools and remake systems in support of deep and powerful learning. He is also the proud recipient of the Morningstar Teaching Award. 
Links
https://www.gse.harvard.edu/directory/faculty/jal-mehta 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jal-mehta-6b14a321/
The Free Range Humans podcast (with Rod Allen): https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/free-range-humans/id1571981852 
The Professor and the Point Guard podcast: https://the-professor-and-the-point-guard.simplecast.com/

When was the last time that you achieved something totally on your own with no reliance on others? My guess is not ever, not really. One of the things we humans have always been really good at, despite our relative vulnerabilities individually, is getting hard things done in groups. And part of what education has always been about has been apprenticing our young people into that collective advantage. And yet, as industrial and technical specialisations have increased, we've set up a modern formal education system that optimises primarily for individual knowledge and skills. Developing the capabilities to work really well together on complex challenges is at best a secondary consideration in our schooling system.  
My guest this week, Rich Watkins has taken on this exact problem and is supporting organisations around the world to build their collaborative abilities. He has developed the 'Let's Go' model which he and a community of practitioners are using to facilitate catalytic conversations and critical reflections that help teams grow and improve and get unstuck. I met Rich a few years ago when he shared a brilliant video that went viral about John Vervaeke's 4Ps of knowing and a more grounded way to grow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyx5tyFttfA) and I was keen to explore with him about how all of this really thoughtful and deep work might connect with our current educational challenges. 
A lifelong collaborator as a scientist, strategist and craftsman of how we work together. Rich spent 20 years at the sharp end of global innovation and org change projects for multinational companies, where he worked in 25 countries and saw impact on five continents. In 2016, he created the Let’s Go Model® and with his team works reinvigorating organisations for these complex times. His clients include Warner Bros. Discovery, Ghirardelli Chocolate Company, Bank of China and Lloyds Banking Group. Having trained well over 30K corporate leaders in the craft of collaboration - getting things done in project teams and partnerships - he is looking to take what he has learned into the wider culture at scale.
​Rich is a TEDx speaker and an executive educator alumni at Duke CE and Emeritus. At Let’s Go he leads a 40 strong global community of practice.
Let’s Go Model is a finalist for Business Enabler of the Year award this year.
Links:
https://www.richwatkins.com/letsgomodel
https://www.letsgo.so/ 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/richarddavidwatkins/

We all take lots of different roles in our personal and professional lives, but one of the roles that I find most exciting (and aspire to myself) is being a convener and connector, bringing people together for generative purposes and in ways that don’t always happen in the silos of modern institutions. My guests this week, Professors Sheila L. Macrine and Jennifer M.B. Fugate have been doing just that in the emerging field of diverse intelligences. They are gathering some of the most leading-edge and brilliant researchers working today on the problems of how to understand agency, cognition and learning in the diverse ways that they are showing up in all kinds of bodyminds — natural, artificial, hybrid and everything in between! It’s an incredibly exciting area of research that is challenging us all, but particularly the legacy systems to loosen the grip on outdated and limiting ideas like IQ.
The two particular places where they have brought these researchers and ideas together are in their two co-edited volumes both with MIT press and both open access. 
Movement Matters: How Embodied Cognition Informs Teaching and Learning (https://direct.mit.edu/books/oa-edited-volume/5306/Movement-MattersHow-Embodied-Cognition-Informs ) (MIT Press, 2020), achieved considerable success, including award nominations and recognition as one of the top ten downloaded books through MIT Press’ Direct2Open. And in June this year they released their second volume entitled, Embodied Intelligence: Multidisciplinary Perspectives on Natural, Artificial, and Hybrid Systems (https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262053495/embodied-intelligence/ )
Professor Sheila Landers Macrine (https://www.umassd.edu/directory/smacrine/ ) is a cognitive psychologist and Professor at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, where she directs the Special Education Program. Holding two PhDs from Temple University, her research in embodied cognition, cognitive development, and alternative assessment has significantly influenced traditional educational paradigms. Dr. Macrine's innovative work includes developing culturally sensitive IQ assessments and pioneering methods for evaluating students with intellectual disabilities. Her recent publications on embodied cognition appear in the International Journal of School and Educational Psychology and the Oxford Research Encyclopedias-Education at Oxford University Press, among others. 
Dr. Jennifer M. B. Fugate (https://www.kansascity.edu/research/faculty-research/faculty-research-kc/jennifer-fugate) studies emotion perception and is trained in the cognitive underpinnings of how people construct emotion through their language (Ph.D., Emory University, 2008).  Dr. Fugate directs the ABLE (affective, behavior, learning and embodiment) lab for able mind and body: https://fugatejennifer.wordpress.com/.
She has three major lines of research: The Effect of Emotion Words on Varying Levels of Cognitive Processing; Increasing Emotion Word Knowledge and Granularity; Embodied Cognition in the Classroom and Teaching Research Skills: https://embodiedcognitionandlearning.com/ .

This is the last of 4 short episodes exploring Guy Claxton and Emily Poel's take on embodiment science that opens up to much-needed scrutiny our core concepts and deep grammars of schooling and education.
Following on from episodes on intelligence, learning and memory, this is a deeper dive into what embodiment science has to say about thinking and reasoning.
You can check out more of the background to this work in Chapters 5, 6, 7 and 8 in Guy and Emily's book 'Bodies of Learning' here: https://www.bodiesoflearning.org/