Wilder Podcast

When James Pearce-Higgins was a boy in Suffolk, the cascading song of the willow warbler meant Easter was on its way. He lives back in Suffolk now, and this summer he heard two. A few weeks later he was in Scotland, and they were everywhere.
That is climate change in one bird, and it runs through this whole episode. Professor James Pearce-Higgins, Director of Science at the BTO, and Bethany Chamberlain, who works on climate change adaptation policy at the RSPB, join Chloe and Tom to unpack Climate change and the UK's birds, the joint RSPB and BTO report published in July. James brings the science. Species that do better in the warmth have increased by around 20 to 25% over the last 25 years or so, while those that struggle in the heat, many seabirds and upland species among them, have fallen by around 30%. Beth brings the policy: what government, landowners and the rest of us actually have to do about it.
The winners are not the good news they look like. Cetti's warbler, Dartford warbler and great white egret are spreading north partly because their Mediterranean strongholds are getting too hot and dry. Golden plover lose the crane fly larvae their chicks depend on when drained peatlands dry out. Some seabird populations are projected to fall by more than 70% by 2050 under a high emissions scenario without conservation action. And the predictions made twenty years ago are now coming true, some faster than expected: the zitting cisticola the models said would colonise bred in Britain for the first time, at Walberswick in Suffolk, in 2025.
Then the harder questions. What happens to a protected site when the bird it was designated for moves north? How do you build offshore wind without harming the seabirds it is meant to protect? What would each of them ask a minister for? And are bird feeders actually good for birds? The RSPB changed its advice this year, and the honest answer is that it depends on what you put out, when, and how clean you keep it.
After the interview, Chloe and Tom reflect on the 24 house martin nests on the house and why the species that cannot move worry Chloe more than the birds that can. Then the project update: around 75 leaky woody dams and a set of stepped ponds built with Tom Johnstone of We Are Nature Based, local wildflower seed sown by Youngwilders, and the first findings from the Wilder Connections summer pilot with nearly 200 young people.
Chapters:
[00:00] Welcome to episode 58
[01:14] Coming up in the update: stepped ponds, wildflower seed and nearly 200 young people
[02:02] The Wilder Supper Club, Saturday 14 November
[04:50] Introducing James Pearce-Higgins (BTO) and Bethany Chamberlain (RSPB)
[08:15] The report: who wrote it and what it is for
[09:41] Why birds? The yellowhammer on the hedge
[12:22] Tens of thousands of volunteers, and Bird Atlas 2027-31
[13:50] The headline findings: winners up, losers down by around 30%
[15:28] Who the report was written for
[16:55] The willow warbler: a personal story of decline
[19:29] If birds just move north, what is the problem?
[21:25] Homogenisation, and seabirds projected to fall by more than 70%
[23:20] The "winners": Cetti's warbler, Dartford warbler and great white egret
[25:11] Predictions versus reality: dotterel and the zitting cisticola
[27:23] What moved faster than expected: migrants, the Sahel and the cuckoo
[30:08] Earthworms, thrushes and golden plover on drying peat
[31:41] What can be done? Policy makers, landowners and individuals
[33:09] Protected areas and the Welsh black grouse recovery
[34:59] Advice for landowners: climate and nature-friendly farming
[38:49] Protected sites when the species move on
[41:16] What else helps seabirds: biosecurity, bycatch and siting wind farms
[42:26] "We can't adapt our way out of this": mitigation and adaptation together
[44:18] What has happened since the report came out in July
[46:27] One ask of a minister each: strategic decisions and long-term funding for nature
[50:44] Offshore wind and seabirds: what the evidence says
[54:47] How listeners can help
[55:57] Bird feeders: good or bad?
[60:26] Chloe and Tom reflect: house martins and the species that cannot move
[63:56] Bird feeders, revisited
[65:54] Project update: leaky woody dams and stepped ponds
[68:20] Youngwilders sow local wildflower seed
[70:45] Wilder Connections: what nearly 200 young people told us
[74:10] Wrapping up
About the guests
Professor James Pearce-Higgins is Director of Science at the BTO (British Trust for Ornithology), which works with volunteer birdwatchers to monitor the UK's birds. He has worked on the impacts of climate change on birds for over twenty years, began his research career studying golden plover, and is a co-author of the report. His BTO journey started as a schoolboy volunteer on the 1988-91 Atlas.
Bethany Chamberlain works on policy at the RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Birds), specialising in climate change adaptation: what a changing climate will do to nature and to us, and how we respond.
BTO: https://www.bto.org/
RSPB: https://www.rspb.org.uk/

Facts and figures mentioned:
The report: Mordue SM, Pearce-Higgins JW, Gregory-Manning S, Bradfer-Lawrence T (2026) Climate change and the UK's birds: impacts, risks, and conservation responses. RSPB and BTO, published 1 July 2026.
Species that do better in warmer conditions have increased by around 20 to 25% on average over roughly 25 years. Species that do worse when it is warmer, including some seabirds and northern and upland species, have declined by around 30% (James, on air).
Some seabird populations could decline by more than 70% by 2050 under a high emissions scenario without conservation measures (the report).
Willow warbler numbers have fallen sharply in southern England over the last 20 to 25 years while increasing in Scotland. James puts the southern decline at around 70 to 80%.
The zitting cisticola, once called the fan-tailed warbler, bred in Britain for the first time at Walberswick, Suffolk, in 2025.
Around 3,500 volunteers take part in the BTO Breeding Bird Survey each year, and 40,000 to 50,000 people contributed records to the last Bird Atlas. The next, Bird Atlas 2027-31, starts in 2027.
For every £1 invested in peatland restoration, the average expected return is £4.62 in quantified benefits (Cambridge Econometrics for the RSPB, 2020).
Greenfinch numbers have fallen by more than 65% since the mid-1990s, with the disease trichomonosis, spread through shared food and water, a key driver. The RSPB's April 2026 advice: pause seed and peanuts from 1 May to 31 October, offer small amounts of suet or mealworms instead, clean feeders weekly, change water daily and retire flat feeders such as bird tables.
On the Grange Project, the number of breeding bird species doubled between our 2024 and 2025 surveys, after we stopped cutting the grass and planted trees.
Nearly 200 young people took part in the Wilder Connections summer pilot. After the two-night camp, 100% said they felt more committed to caring for nature.

Resources and links mentioned:
Climate change and the UK's birds (RSPB and BTO report): https://www.bto.org/our-work/science/publications/reports/other-reports/rspb-bto-climate-change-report
BTO press release on the report: https://www.bto.org/our-work/news/press/new-evidence-shows-climate-change-already-impacting-uk-bird-populations
Bird Atlas 2027-31: https://www.bto.org/get-involved/work-with-us/partnerships/bird-atlas-2027-31
BTO Garden BirdWatch: https://www.bto.org/our-science/projects/gbw
RSPB "Feed Seasonally. Feed Safely." guidance: https://www.rspb.org.uk/whats-happening/news/how-to-help-garden-birds
RSPB Big Garden Birdwatch: https://www.rspb.org.uk/whats-happening/big-garden-birdwatch
Economic costs and benefits of nature-based solutions to mitigate climate change (Cambridge Econometrics for the RSPB): https://www.camecon.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/The-economic-costs-benefits-of-nature-based-solutions_final-report_FINAL_V3.pdf
Zitting cisticola breeds in Britain for the first time (BirdGuides): https://www.birdguides.com/news/historic-first-nesting-of-zitting-cisticola-in-britain/
Youngwilders:

Jon Moses lives five minutes from the River Monnow. He had lived beside it for twenty years and barely knew it, because almost none of it could legally be reached. In the first lockdown he pretended for a day that he lived in Scotland, and walked up it anyway.
That walk is the whole argument of this episode. Jon is co-director of the Right to Roam campaign and co-editor of Wild Service: Why Nature Needs You, and he joins Chloe and Tom to explain what the campaign is actually asking for: parity with Scotland, where a right of responsible access to land and water has been the default since 2003, rather than the roughly 8% of England that the Countryside and Rights of Way Act opened up for walking and climbing only.
Tom comes at it as the concerned landowner. Someone left a bag of poo in a bush on the project. Gates have been left open with livestock behind them. There are 100 kilogram pigs on the land that have chased people and ripped trousers, and a horse who has now tried to eat one of the pigs. So the conversation gets into the practical questions rather than the slogans: what happens to liability, how conservation land gets exempted, whether someone could camp next to the cabins, and what you do about the ten per cent of people who will never apply common sense.
Chloe brings the other side. Living in the Forest of Dean they could walk for three hours from the back door without crossing a road. From the Grange there is not a single usable footpath. And if the benefits to wellbeing are as large as the evidence suggests, is it fair to deny them to the many because of the few?
The bit that stays with you is Jon's shift from access for recreation to access for guardianship. On the River Wye, which for access purposes already works much like Scotland, it was local people who knew the river well who raised the alarm on algal blooms long before the regulators did. You look after what you know. You cannot know what you are not allowed to see.
After the interview, Chloe and Tom cover the four benefits they never got to, Rose's idea for a Right to Roam licence, and the full story of Lady the horse, two pigs, and a pair of Crocs.
Chapters:
[00:06] Welcome to episode 57, and a first for Tom
[02:39] Project update: 20 jars of pickled cucumbers and a market garden in its second summer
[04:37] Community Day, Saturday 12 September, spaces still available
[06:03] Jon Moses joins: Wild Service, the Monnow Valley and a lockdown trespass
[11:11] What the campaign is actually asking for: parity with Scotland
[12:44] Why Scotland got there and England and Wales did not: devolution, the Lords and the Clearances
[17:53] The concerned landowner: poo in a bag, open gates and 100 kilogram pigs
[19:40] How Scotland handles liability, livestock and exempting conservation land
[22:29] Does everyone have common sense? Why the Wilder Wander is still not marketed
[26:31] Chloe: no usable footpath from our land, and the ethical question
[32:17] Could someone camp next to our cabins? Privacy, curtilage and commercial use
[36:47] A feudal culture: shouting rights, DofE students and the meeting point on the land
[41:31] What the campaign has achieved, and access for guardianship on the River Wye
[44:08] How to support Right to Roam, and why this year matters
[45:13] Chloe and Tom: the four benefits we never got to
[49:47] The horse and pig story
[54:00] Wrapping up
About the guest
Jon Moses is co-director of the Right to Roam campaign, which is calling for a Right to Roam Act for England and Wales. He is a former teacher and historian, with a PhD from London, and looks at land access through the lens of land history. He co-edited Wild Service: Why Nature Needs You (Bloomsbury, 2024) with Nick Hayes, and writes the Substack The Fields Was Our Church. He lives in the Monnow Valley on the Welsh borders, and has been working alongside Chloe and Tom through the Welsh Rewilding Alliance over the past year.
Right to Roam: https://www.righttoroam.org.uk/
Jon's Substack: https://jonmoses.substack.com/

Facts and figures mentioned:
The Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 created access land over mountain, moor, heath and down, covering roughly 8% of England, for walking and climbing only. No swimming, cycling or camping, with the exception of Dartmoor
The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 established a default right of responsible access to land and water, with exceptions for privacy, growing crops and land management
Scottish Land and Estates, the main landowner body in Scotland, opposed the Act at the time and now broadly regard it as a success
A Right to Roam freedom of information request found the government was spending £2,000 on promoting the Countryside Code. After pressure that rose to around £150,000
Only the Green Party currently has the full Scottish model as policy. Most progressive parties have accepted access to water as a next step
The River Wye is one of very few rivers in England and Wales with statutory rights of navigation, so there is a public right to swim and paddle it
The Grange Project market garden is around 2,000 square metres and a little over a year old. This summer produced roughly 20 jars of pickled cucumbers, 20 of preserves and 10 of jam, plus a freezer full
Four slow worms seen on the project this year, up from none a year ago, plus grass snake sheds
Lady is a 24 year old ex eventer, now on the project as a grazing herbivore. The pigs are unconvinced

Resources and links mentioned:
Right to Roam campaign: https://www.righttoroam.org.uk/
Support the campaign (donate, join a local group): https://www.righttoroam.org.uk/takeaction
Right to Roam on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/right.2roam
Right to Roam on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/righttoroam.bsky.social
Wild Service: Why Nature Needs You, edited by Nick Hayes and Jon Moses: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/wild-service-9781526673299/
Jon Moses on Substack, The Fields Was Our Church: https://jonmoses.substack.com/
Welsh Rewilding Alliance / Cynghrair Ailwylltio Cymru: https://www.rewildingalliance.cymru/
Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/37/contents
Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/2/contents
Scottish Outdoor Access Code: https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/
The Countryside Code (England and Wales): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-countryside-code
Duke of Edinburgh's Award: https://www.dofe.org/
Grange Project September Community Day, Saturday 12 September: https://grangeproject.co.uk/events/september-community-day
Stay at the Grange Project: https://grangeproject.co.uk/stay

Related Wilder Podcast episodes:
Ep. 040: Rivers in Crisis with James Wallace, on the state of the Wye and who is fighting for it: https://grangeproject.co.uk/podcast/rivers-in-crisis-a-conversation-with-james-wallace
Ep. 045: Community Land Stewardship with Chris Blake, on who land is for: https://grangeproject.co.uk/podcast/community-land-stewardship-with-chris-blake
Ep. 017: (re)Wild the Boar with Chantal Lyons, for the Forest of Dean boar that came up in this one: https://grangeproject.co.uk/podcast/re-wild-the-boar-with-chantal-lyons

Come and see it for yourself:
Our next Community Day is Saturday 12 September, 9:30am to 4pm. Scything, seed distribution, apple and blackberry harvesting, a reset of the market garden, path upgrades and some foraging know-how, with a tour for anyone new to the project. It is free, there are still a few spaces, and there will be pickled...

A mountain has been burning 13 miles from the Grange Project for two weeks. Wales has just gone into drought after receiving 8% of its average July rainfall, the driest July in 190 years. Just under 22,000 hectares have burnt across the UK so far this year, more than the whole of 2022, with most of the summer still to come.
This is a special episode, recorded quickly, to try to understand what is actually happening.
Tom is joined by James Hitchcock, Rewilding Advocacy and Policy Lead for Rewilding Britain in Wales, and Alex Crawley, co-director of Grazing Management and a Nuffield scholar who studied wildfire in France and California. Both arrive from different starting points and both refuse the easy answer.
Because there is an easy answer doing the rounds, in two versions. Restock the uplands and graze down the fuel load. Or rewild, rewet, and the landscape stops burning. Neither survives contact with the detail.
What the conversation gets to instead is more useful: not all fuel loads are equal, spring fires and summer fires are different problems, rewilding sites are genuinely more vulnerable during their transition years, and almost every wildfire in Britain starts with a person.
Chloe joins Tom afterwards to pick over what the interview left out, including the effect on people, the standing grass on their own land, and whether "wildfire" is even the right word.
Chapters
[00:00] Welcome to a special episode, and why the gap since the last one
[03:04] Setting the scene: a mountain on fire 13 miles away, and what 220 hectares means in Grange Projects
[05:20] Why are we seeing more wildfires now, or are we?
[05:22] Alex on whiplash weather, soil moisture and winter vegetation build-up
[06:20] James on fire danger modelling, the first UK mega fire, and degraded habitats
[11:29] What the Met Office projects for 2050, and why it may already be out of date
[12:58] Fire is not a natural process in Britain
[15:34] Shifting baselines, and the day Tom walked away from his flail mower
[16:47] Arson, barbecues and the culture that needs to change
[18:15] Triggers versus conditions: who is getting the blame
[18:49] Alex on wildfire being used to fit ideological narratives
[20:07] James on why it is not either/or, and where beavers come in
[25:17] What Alex learned in California: goats, sagebrush and ladder fuels
[28:51] The vulnerable years: firebreaks as insurance for a rewilding site
[32:31] Mapping wet firebreaks and joining them up
[34:50] Who insures a nature asset that burns down?
[37:23] What France tells us about reactive spending
[39:17] Final thoughts from James 40:18 Final thoughts from Alex
[41:02] Tom and Chloe reflect on the interview
[52:00] Political courage, and a thank you to Catherine Fookes MP
[53:09] Is this the moment the climate crisis becomes real to people?
About the guests
James Hitchcock is the Rewilding Advocacy and Policy Lead for Rewilding Britain in Wales, and the first full-time person the organisation has had working in the country. He has over 20 years in the environment sector, from site management through to senior leadership, and was previously CEO of Radnorshire Wildlife Trust, where he led the rewilding of Gilfach in the Marteg Valley.
Rewilding Britain: rewildingbritain.org.uk
Alex Crawley is co-director of Grazing Management Limited alongside Emily Crawley. The business delivers contract conservation grazing across around 25 sites, restoring habitats on behalf of partners including Natural Resources Wales, the Wye Valley National Landscape and Severn Trent. Alex is a Nuffield scholar and studied wildfire management in France and California.
Grazing Management: grazingmanagement.co.uk
Both James and Alex have been guests on the Wilder Podcast before. Links to their previous episodes are below.
Facts and figures mentioned
Wales received 8% of its average July rainfall in July 2026, the driest July in 190 years. Drought was declared across the whole of Wales on 30 July, following England
The Blaenavon fire covered around 220 hectares of bracken and gorse at its peak, roughly seven times the size of the Grange Project. It had been burning since 19 July
Just under 22,000 hectares have burnt across the UK so far in 2026, more than the total for the whole of 2022
Around 50,000 hectares burnt across the UK in 2025
Wales recorded roughly 3,450 grass fire incidents last year, of which around two and a half thousand were started deliberately
There has been approximately one wildfire in the UK officially recorded as started by lightning
Wales has around 50 beavers. Scotland has well over 1,500
In California, targeted grazing runs at roughly 250 goats on one acre for one day, at around £750
The Met Office projects hotter summers with less rainfall by 2050, with high fire risk days doubling against the late 20th century average

Resources and links mentioned
Rewilding Britain: https://www.rewildingbritain.org.uk/
How rewilding reduces wildfire risk (Rewilding Britain): https://www.rewildingbritain.org.uk/why-rewild/benefits-of-rewilding/how-rewilding-reduces-wildfire-risk
Rewilding Britain policy briefings and responses: https://www.rewildingbritain.org.uk/about-us/what-we-say/policy
Grazing Management: https://grazingmanagement.co.uk/
Welsh Rewilding Alliance / Cynghrair Ailwylltio Cymru: https://www.rewildingalliance.cymru/
Wild Cymru: https://www.wild.cymru/
Wild Cymru wildfire report: Protecting Wildlife from Wildfires and Illegal Grassland Burns: https://www.wild.cymru/wild-cymrus-wildfire-report/
Wildfire Wise, the Wales Wildfire Board campaign: https://www.mawwfire.gov.uk/eng/campaigns-and-consultations/wildfirewise
Nuffield Farming Scholarships Trust: https://www.nuffieldscholar.org/
Alex Crawley's Nuffield scholar page: https://www.nuffieldscholar.org/scholars/2025/alex-crawley
The National Emergency Briefing: https://www.nebriefing.org/
The National Emergency Briefing open letter: https://www.nebriefing.org/open-letter-keir
Palisades Fire, California, January 2025 (CAL FIRE): https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents/2025/1/7/palisades-fire
Wildfire risks to UK landscapes (POST briefing, UK Parliament): https://post.parliament.uk/research-briefings/post-pn-0717/

Related Wilder Podcast episodes
Ep. 047: Monmouth Floods, the previous special episode on a live climate event
Ep. 026: What have the Wildlife Trusts ever done for us? with James Hitchcock
Ep. 036: "It's the how, not the cow" with Grazing Management. (Alex's previous ep).

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Helen Meech is Executive Director of the Climate Coalition, the UK's largest group of organisations dedicated to action on people, climate and nature. Over 130 member organisations, from the National Trust to Oxfam to Save the Children, plus a network of around 3,500 community organisers across the UK. And yet most people have never heard of them. As Helen explains, that's deliberate.
We talk about Great Big Green Week, the Coalition's flagship campaign, running this year from 6 to 14 June. It has more than doubled in size every year for three years: 250,000 people, then 600,000, then 1.2 million last year, with around 2 million expected this year. The stat that matters most: over a third of attendees had never engaged with climate or nature before. They came because someone they knew organised something, or because it was free to do with the kids on a Saturday.
We also dig into where power actually sits. Helen's framing, "creating the space for politics to move into," challenges the idea that change is something politicians do to us. And we compare notes on the People's Emergency Briefing, which we recently screened at the Grange Hub, and the tension every communicator in this space wrestles with: realism versus hope.
The post-interview chat gets into Tom's view that the era of being polite about the emergency is over, Chloe's case for hope grounded in community rather than technology, and why we still don't have a Help for Heroes equivalent for the climate movement.
About the guest
Helen Meech is Executive Director of the Climate Coalition. She has spent 25 years in environmental campaigning and movement-building, including roles at the National Trust and the RSPB, where she was Head of Movement Building and led the development of the People's Plan for Nature. Her work is built on a single belief: people are powerful, especially when they come together.
The Climate Coalition: theclimatecoalition.org Great Big Green Week: greatbiggreenweek.com
Chapters
00:00 - Welcome and intros
01:30 - Grange update: screening the People's Emergency Briefing at the Hub
04:30 - Watching hard truths in community, and why that changes the experience
06:55 - Tom's case: the days of being polite about the emergency are over
07:30 - Wilder Connections summer programme: co-design with young people
10:57 - Who is the Climate Coalition?
14:59 - Why most people haven't heard of the Climate Coalition (on purpose)
17:24 - "Creating the space for politics to move into"
20:05 - Everyone has power: protest, community organising, media, culture
22:18 - Great Big Green Week: nightclubs, litter picks, fetes and school assemblies
23:59 - The infrastructure behind 6,000 local events
29:54 - Flooded pitches: why grassroots sport is organising
30:30 - The unexpected challenge: keeping the big NGOs on board
32:43 - Greenwashing and a brand with a life of its own
34:15 - The Coalition's three policy asks
36:50 - The five million target, and matching Children in Need for awareness
39:43 - Helen's reaction to the People's Emergency Briefing
42:28 - Rebecca Solnit and hope as an action
44:35 - How to get involved in Great Big Green Week
46:03 - Tom and Chloe debrief: community action vs direct action
48:27 - The 3.5% rule, and whether the research still holds
50:45 - The school drop-off apology problem: why we need a safe movement to belong to
53:40 - Hope vs fear: did the briefing get the balance right?
Key takeaways
Over a third of Great Big Green Week attendees have never engaged with climate or nature before. They come because the event is organised by someone they know, connected to a community they're already part of, or simply free to do with the kids. Over 80% of those newcomers wanted to do more afterwards.
Great Big Green Week has more than doubled in size every year for three years, and reached a media audience of over 60 million last year. Around 11% of the UK population recognises it when prompted, on a par with campaigns that have run for decades.
Helen's core argument about power: if we say politicians are the only ones with power, we're handing ours to them. The Coalition's job is to make the public mandate visible so politicians have space to move into.
The Coalition's three policy asks: climate finance flowing where it's most needed, fairness at the heart of climate action (bills, jobs, just transition), and the urgent protection and restoration of nature.
Fear needs to be combined with agency. Helen cites the Branding Biodiversity report: hard-hitting information without a path to action paralyses people. Twenty-five years into her career, the People's Emergency Briefing still made her cry. Her response was to write a to-do list.
Hope is an action, not a mood. Rebecca Solnit's framing: pessimists and optimists both excuse themselves from doing anything.
Resources and links mentioned
Organisations and campaigns
The Climate Coalition: theclimatecoalition.org
Great Big Green Week (6-14 June 2026): greatbiggreenweek.com
National Emergency Briefing / People's Emergency Briefing, including the screening map and how to host one: nebriefing.org
Wilder Connections, Chloe's charity growing a movement for nature connection in young people: wilderconnections.charity
Climate Psychology Alliance (facilitation training Chloe mentioned): climatepsychologyalliance.org
More in Common (audience segmentation partner): moreincommon.org.uk
Bristol Stepping Sisters
National Trust, RSPB, Oxfam, Save the Children, Co-op (Coalition members referenced)

Ideas and references
Rebecca Solnit, Hope in the Dark
Joanna Macy, Active Hope: activehope.info
Branding Biodiversity report (Futerra): fear combined with agency
The 3.5% rule (Erica Chenoweth's research on nonviolent resistance)
The People's Plan for Nature: peoplesplanfornature.org

Come and stay with us
If this conversation has you craving time somewhere slower, our off-grid cabins sit in a quiet corner of Monmouthshire surrounded by 80 acres of recovering nature. Visit grangeproject.co.uk and click "Stay with us" in the top right corner.

Episode summary
We see Pete Cairns as rewilding royalty. Thirty years in the conservation conversation, co-founder and former CEO of SCOTLAND: The Big Picture, and now host of the new podcast At the Edge. In this episode Tom and Chloe sit down with Pete to dig into the one thing every species reintroduction in the UK has in common, and it is not the species.
Wildcats, sea eagles, red kites, beavers, lynx. The practical side of bringing animals back is largely solved. What is not solved is the human side. The consultation, the fear, the bureaucracy, the politics, and the deep emotional and economic stakes for the rural communities living on the front line.
We talk about the 11 million domestic cats in the UK and the 100 million wild animals they kill each year. The mysterious lynx release in the Cairngorms in January 2025. Whether "beaver bombers" should be celebrated or condemned. And what Pete would do if he had a magic wand to fix the system.
The post-interview chat between Tom and Chloe gets properly unpacked on the moral case for reintroductions, the sheep farmer's perspective, and whether logic or culture should lead.
About the guest
Pete Cairns has spent thirty years working on rewilding communications and engagement, with a particular focus on the human-wildlife fault line. He co-founded SCOTLAND: The Big Picture and served as its CEO until 2025. He now works independently and hosts the podcast At the Edge, a deep dive into our relationship with wild nature and each other.
Find Pete on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/petercairnsphoto Listen to At the Edge: attheedge.org.uk
Chapters
00:00 - Welcome and what is the Wilder Podcast
01:55 - Project update: the community day
04:22 - Thanks to Katya and Hannah in the market garden
05:09 - Pigs escaping again
06:38 - Why we're talking to Pete
07:10 - Pete's introduction and 30 years in the rewilding conversation
10:07 - What is a wildcat, and how did Scotland nearly lose them
12:22 - Why the wildcat decline went unnoticed for so long
15:00 - The elephant in the room: 11 million domestic cats and 100 million wild animals
18:05 - Cats are hardwired, not killing for fun 22:02 - The principles of species reintroduction, from sea eagles to today
24:16 - Beavers, wolves and the feeling that reintroductions are "done to" rural communities
26:00 - Lynx to Scotland vs The Missing Lynx Project: two regulatory bodies, two processes
28:35 - Selling the benefits, hearing the concerns, and the sheep predation reality
31:30 - "Just pay the farmer" is a dangerous narrative 32:20 - What does success even look like
35:14 - The shortage of skilled navigators in conservation
35:54 - The illegal lynx release in the Cairngorms, January 2025
38:15 - Beaver bombers and the guerrilla rewilding question
40:16 - If Pete could redesign the system, what would it look like
43:04 - What one listener can actually do: voice, vote, money
45:04 - Is wildcat reintroduction a success
48:07 - Pete's sign-off and where to find At the Edge
48:42 - Tom and Chloe debrief: cats, sheep farmers, and the moral argument
59:24 - The ripple effect of wild landscapes on culture
Key takeaways
Species reintroduction is no longer a practical problem. The science and the techniques exist. The challenge now is social, cultural and political: how do we live alongside species we have not shared the landscape with for generations.
The UK is one of the only countries in Europe with no large carnivores, and one of the only countries anywhere. The question is not whether it is ecologically possible. It is whether we will.
The "just pay the farmer" line misses the point. Farmers are motivated by financial considerations, but also by tradition, family history, animal welfare and a sense of place. None of those things have a price tag.
Lynx to Scotland is the most comprehensive consultation a reintroduction has ever had in this country. Whether it ultimately leads to a release or not, the process itself has reset the standard.
The illegal lynx release in the Cairngorms in January 2025 was, in Pete's words, "plain stupid". But it advanced the conversation. There is a sweet spot somewhere between an illicit release and a process that takes 15 years.
Mediating these conversations is a specialist skill, and there is a real shortage of people who can do it well. Most conservation organisations cannot mediate their own debates because they wear a badge.
Domestic cats kill an estimated 100 million wild animals in the UK every year. Not a judgement on cat ownership, but a call for informed choice.
Resources and links mentioned
Organisations
SCOTLAND: The Big Picture: scotlandbigpicture.com
Royal Zoological Society of Scotland (RZSS): rzss.org.uk
Saving Wildcats project: savingwildcats.co.uk
Highland Wildlife Park: highlandwildlifepark.org.uk
Lynx to Scotland: lynxtoscotland.org
Trees for Life: treesforlife.org.uk
The Lifescape Project: lifescapeproject.org
NatureScot: nature.scot
Natural England: gov.uk/government/organisations/natural-england
RSPB: rspb.org.uk
Buglife: buglife.org.uk
Rewilding Britain: rewildingbritain.org.uk

Referenced in the episode
Pete's new podcast, At the Edge: attheedge.org.uk
The Scottish Code for Conservation Translocations: nature.scot/professional-advice/safeguarding-protected-areas-and-species/translocation
Iberian Lynx programme (the model Saving Wildcats is based on)

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