Listen to the stories behind football's biggest names, hosted by Simon Kuper and Mehreen Khan.
"Hosts Simon Kuper and Mehreen Khan know their stuff." – The Guar...
No footballer in history has had a career at the top for as long as Cristiano Ronaldo. Nearing his 40th birthday, when will it be time for Ronaldo to finally retire? And will he bow out gracefully—or cry?
This is the second and final episode on Cristiano Ronaldo. Simon and Mehreen track Ronaldo’s life from 2009 onwards, detailing his transition to family man, his atmospheric rise on social media, and his footballing career after Manchester United.
This episode covers Ronaldo’s rivalry with Messi, his fear of decline and irrelevancy, and his dedication to football at every stage—whether it’s the Euros or in the Saudi league. Is it because of Ronaldo that football has reached a fetishisation of high performance?
This is the finale of the highest-paid athlete on earth who rose from nothing—a person who embodies hustle culture but whose self importance is so grandiose one can’t help but mock it.
Time stamps:
0:36: Ronaldo joins Real Madrid
5:05: Rivalry with Messi
9:11: Perfect life, perfect child, perfect wife?
17:01: Global icon and social media superstar
22:41: Euro 2016
29:13: Manchester United and Juventus
34:28: Humiliation and personal tragedy
37:55: Joining the Saudi pro league
41:36: Decline in the Portuguese national team
44:11: GOAT status or pipped to the post?
49:17: The Muslim conspiracy and ongoing legacy
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53:49
Cristiano Ronaldo: The alcoholic's son who became a workaholic
Vain, disciplined, consistent: Cristiano Ronaldo is a football legend like no other. How did this hyper-athletic, prone-to-cry Portuguese player become such a dominant force—not only in football but on the world stage?
This episode is the first of two on the legendary football player and covers Ronaldo’s early life. The episode chronicles Ronaldo’s childhood, growing up as an unwanted child in relative poverty in Madeira, and his move to the Portuguese mainland, where he became determined to work harder, better, and faster than everyone else.
Simon and Mehreen paint a picture of Ronaldo’s ascent to international fame and superstardom, giving insight into his relationship with Alex Ferguson and Ronaldo’s tendency to always be an individual rather than a team player.
This is the first part of a story of the man who takes himself so seriously he has become a meme—and how his egocentric, strict discipline and routine helped to propel him to the top.
*Trigger warning: Mentions of sexual assault allegations, marked in the timestamps*
Time stamps:
0:36: Introduction and stats
4:01: Growing up in poverty in Madeira
9:22: Arrival to the mainland and showing fierce discipline
15:13: Youth career and rising competition for fame
20:40: Arrival at Manchester UnitedÂ
26:36: UEFA 2004 and a teenager’s determination for greatness
30:20: Controversies and acclaim at Manchester UnitedÂ
39:00: Ronaldo’s first Ballon D’Or (but not the last)
46:22: Alex Ferguson’s infantilisation of Ronaldo at Manchester United
50:25: Sexual assault allegations in Las Vegas *TW: contains mentions of alleged sexual violence that some listeners may find upsetting*
56:12: Wrap up and look towards part two
Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!
Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?
By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.
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59:20
Pogba: Brilliant, Betrayed, Banned.
Paul Labile Pogba is, according to host Simon, one of the most gifted players of all time. How did an international, record-breaking superstar become embroiled in a mess of conspiracy, extortion and doping bans? And will we see a comeback for Pogba in 2025?
This episode covers Pogba’s life and career, from growing up in France and flying under the radar at Manchester United to a rise to dominance at Juventus and becoming the ‘Churchillian leader’ of the French National Team.Â
An incredibly gifted player whose play style can dominate all parts of the pitch, Simon and Mehreen also cover the dark downfall of Pogba’s late 20s. In Shakespearean fashion, Pogba's brother betrayed him (including a bizarre West African witch doctor story), only for him to fail a doping test after his comeback.
Will one of football’s most interesting main characters be able to take the centre stage ever again? Returning to football aged 32, will Pogba see a redemption, or is it all over for this tragic hero? And what hairstyle will we see next?
Time stamps:
0:36: Introduction and stats
3:31: Growing up and finding religion
9:02: Underestimated at Manchester United (and fights with Ferguson)
14:22: Success at Juventus
20:20: Dreams of total dominance
25:58: A leader is born
31:20: Racism and the ‘Karen’ of football
36:39: Complacency at Manchester United
39:09: Betrayal by his brother
46:28: The witch doctor conspiracy
40:28: Doping banÂ
52:08: Pogba’s legacy and future
Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!
Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?
By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.
Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.
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59:18
Maradona: Downfall
By his late-20s, superstar footballer Maradona had it all: copious wealth and record-breaking transfer fees, a rockstar lifestyle, and a glittering presence at the World Cup. So what soured?
This is the tragic tale of Diego Maradona, from his late 20s until his death in 2020 at just 60 years old. This is the story of Maradona’s decades-long decline, from being (briefly) hated in Italy and failing drug tests on the international stage to unsuccessful tenures as a football manager.
Simon and Mehreen chronicle Maradona’s later years, including sought-after peace in the United Arab Emirates and constant returns to his country of Argentina. They reflect on Maradona’s legacy among the greats, and Simon gives his own insights into meeting Maradona—the polite man who often seemed a ‘performing seal’.
Above all, this episode covers Maradona’s intrinsic links to Argentina—the country that both revered and celebrated him but may also have been the cause of his demise. The episode paints a picture of Maradona as a resistance hero, a victim of racism, and a person who lived under the pressures of both extreme fame and famine.
This is the second part of a two-part podcast. Listen to ‘Maradona: From the slum to world champion’ before this one.Â
Time stamps:
1:44: The Napoli ‘cult’ starts to sour
6:57: The most hated man in Italy (briefly)
9:07: World Cups and failed drug tests
16:54: Simon meets Maradona
20:58: The ‘little man’ worldview of Argentinian politics and race
30:41: Maradona becomes the Argentine football manager
36:42: Move to the UAE—peace at last
43:25: Back in Argentina, and fatal heart attack
49:09: Maradona’s legacy
Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!
Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?
By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.
Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.
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53:36
Maradona: From the slum to world champion
Only a few people can say they carry the weight of a nation on their shoulders – and football superstar Diego Maradona was one of them.
This episode, the first of a two-part series, covers the ‘glory’ years of Diego Maradona, the pocket rocket who became the face of Argentina and Argentinian football.Â
Named as one of the greatest players in the history of sport, this episode covers Maradona’s younger years—from rising success after growing up in the slums of Argentina, to stints at Barcelona, success at Napoli, and World Cup glories (and controversies).
In this episode, Mehreen and Simon also cover the dark side of Maradona—from routine drug taker and serial womaniser to mafia run-ins, military coups in Argentina, and the imprisoning effect of global fame.
What is the real story behind ‘el pibe de oro’ (the golden boy)?
Timestamps:
00:36: Introduction and career statistics
04:58: Growing up poor and ostracised in Argentina
12:06: Pro debut and lift from poverty
16:18: The cage of global fame and war in the Falklands
21:39: Drugs, drinking, and stardom
26:14: Napoli comes calling
29:45: Maradona and the mafia
34:52: The 1986 world cup and the ‘hand of god’ goal
50:23: The symbolic defeat of the imperial master (England)
56:19: Private life gets complicated
Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!
Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?
By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.
Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.
Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans
Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere.
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Listen to the stories behind football's biggest names, hosted by Simon Kuper and Mehreen Khan.
"Hosts Simon Kuper and Mehreen Khan know their stuff." – The Guardian
"The most interesting football podcast of the moment." – NRC, a leading Dutch daily
Heroes & Humans moves beyond the traditional boundaries of sports commentary to explore the lives of football's most interesting figures. Whether episodes are about Messi, Abramovich, Cruyff, Şükür or Haaland, this is the go-to podcast for football audio-biographies. Released once weekly on Thursdays.
Simon Kuper, acclaimed by Time Magazine as "one of the world's leading writers on soccer," and an awarded Financial Times columnist, brings a three-decade career of interviewing and understanding the personalities that define the world’s greatest sport. Having attended the last nine World Cups and boasting Europe's largest football library, Simon's insights are rooted in a profound depth of knowledge and passion for football.
Mehreen Khan, whose day job is as the Economics Editor at The Times, believes football is a "brilliant shortcut in how to understand societies, economies, and politics". She is a football obsessive and die-hard Chelsea fan. With her ability to intertwine socio-political narratives with pop culture savvy, Mehreen stands out in the football podcasting landscape. Her presence as one of the few female voices adds a valuable dimension, broadening the conversation for listeners.
Mehreen was previously the FT’s Brussels correspondent, before moving to The Times in 2022. She started her career in sports journalism at the Daily Telegraph in 2014, and wrote a football blog that touched on themes including Russia’s breakaway Muslim separatism, German multiculturalism, and the earth-shattering magnificence of Andrea Pirlo.
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