The Latter Day Lens

• Episode 146: Should Governments Sell Land, MTG Retires from Congress, CDC Website Changes, The CIA's Secret Studies on Persuasion

  Send us a textThe Thought Provoker:First this week. Idaho's government voted to sell 160 acres of state land near the town of Driggs. The land is currently leased to the Beard family, who use it for ranching. A billionaire owns land next to this property and may want to buy it. The Land Board voted 4-1 to move forward with the sale. Is it morally wrong for states to sell public land to the highest bidder?Next up, Marjorie Taylor Greene has announced that she is leaving Congress, what does this mean?Finally, The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) changed its website to say that vaccines might cause autism. Before, the CDC said there is no link between vaccines and autism. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is now the U.S. Health Secretary, and he personally ordered this change. Kennedy has made millions of dollars from his work against vaccines over many years. Many studies with over 5 million people have shown vaccines do not cause autism, but Kennedy says more research is needed. Doctors say this change is dangerous because it may cause parents to stop vaccinating their children. When fewer children get vaccinated, diseases like measles spread more easily. CDC scientists were not asked about this change before it happened. What could RFK Jr. do to persuade people that he is doing the right thing and not just looking out for himself?The Big Question: MK-ULTRA was a secret CIA program that ran from 1953 to 1964. The CIA wanted to learn how to control people's minds and behavior. They tested drugs like LSD on thousands of Americans without telling them. The CIA used 86 universities, hospitals, and prisons to do this work. Many top researchers did not know the CIA was paying for their work. Here is the big question. Democracies require public disclosure of this kind of information so voters can hold elected officials accountable. But, when people find out about this stuff, they lose trust in government. This is one reason why private settlements have non-disclosure agreements. Should governments be allowed to settle cases like this and include non-disclosure agreements? Should they be allowed to keep this kind of information private?Chapters00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome02:57 Concert Experiences and Personal Growth05:47 AI in the Workplace: Challenges and Perspectives10:37 Public Land Ownership and Government Ethics19:22 Marjorie Taylor Greene: Political Shifts and Implications27:25 The Future of MAGA Without Trump28:22 Balkanization of Political Factions29:43 The Challenge of Political Institutions30:45 Racism and the Republican Party33:11 RFK Jr. and Vaccine Controversies43:44 The Dark History of MKUltra45:26 Government Secrecy and Accountability50:57 The Role of Non-Disclosure Agreements

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• Episode 145: Why Republicans Are in Trouble: Plus, The Debt Bomb and America's Biased Immigration Policy

  Send us a textIn this packed episode, Matt and Shawn dive into the latest political and moral challenges facing the nation:The Republican Crisis: The conversation starts by analyzing the troubling election results for the Republican party and the unexpected demographic shifts moving away from Donald Trump. We discuss why Utah and Idaho remain the biggest exceptions to this trend, debating whether it's tied to regional economics or a deeper, post-assassination-attempt loyalty.The Immorality of Debt: Is it wrong for a government to spend money it does not have? We examine the shocking growth of the U.S. federal debt (now approaching $40 trillion) and explore why the prevailing economic theory dismisses this as a problem. This leads to a debate on political cronyism, asking if massive government contracts—like those awarded to Elon Musk and Rick Perry—are wasteful corruption or justified merit.Health, Prejudice, and Policy: The hosts tackle a major ethical question after the U.S. government directed visa officers to use common chronic illnesses (including obesity and diabetes) as a reason for denial. Is this an act of financial prudence or an unacceptable prejudice? We connect this policy directly to the foundational principles of American opportunity and the teachings of President Oaks on rising above bias.Timestamp | Chapter Title00:00 | Introduction and Personal Catch-Up (Weather, Mark, and Shawn's Grievance)02:49 | The Hosts' Dialogue: Matt's Media Appearances and Mission Stories Talk07:38 | Topic 1: The Republican Crisis, Voter Swings, and Trump's Last Holdouts14:38 | Debating Trump Loyalty in Utah and Idaho20:28 | Topic 2: National Debt, Morality, and Economic Theory28:26 | The Crypto Debate: Financial Stability vs. Criminality32:33 | Topic 3: Cronyism vs. Merit (Musk, Perry, and Wasteful Spending)37:39 | The Milton Friedman Debate: Spending Other People's Money42:55 | Topic 4: Health-Based Visa Denials and President Oaks on Prejudice (Includes Conclusion)

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• Episode 144: Freedom, Power, and the Price of Morality: Is Hinckley's Debt Advice Outdated?

  Send us a textJoin hosts Matt, Shawn, and Melanie as they dive into complex, interconnected themes of freedom, power dynamics, and the difficult relationship between morality and economics.The conversation starts by challenging the idea that freedom is simply the "power to make choices," drawing on the philosophy of Victor Frankl to discuss the unchangeable freedom of response that exists even in the most oppressive circumstances.The Economics of Immorality: The hosts examine the historical argument that slavery was a foundational economic engine for the US, using this as a moral challenge: How can we avoid turning a blind eye to modern immoral practices when they are economically beneficial?Morality vs. Policy: Does the looming expiration of Obamacare subsidies reveal a moral obligation to care for the sick and poor, or is it purely a political question driven by economics? The discussion sparks debate on whether government-created problems (like rising healthcare costs due to regulation) necessitate government-led solutions.Policing Intentions & Entrapment: A deep dive into the ethics of police sting operations (such as enticing a child over the internet), questioning the morality of punishing intent when no actual harm has occurred, and the effectiveness of focusing on "low-hanging fruit" versus systemic issues like sex trafficking.Debt and Latter-day Saints Culture: The hosts tackle recent data showing that high-Latter-day Saint-population states like Idaho and Utah have the highest debt-to-income ratios in the US.Is President Gordon B. Hinckley's 1998 counsel to avoid debt and "live modestly" outdated in today's housing and economic climate?Shawn and Melanie debate the role of the housing market, a culture of "keeping up with the Joneses," and generational spending habits (Millennials/Gen Z spending on luxury cars, travel, and phones) in driving up personal consumer debt.Chapters00:00 Introduction and Audio Quality Discussion02:20 Power Dynamics and Freedom07:09 Slavery's Economic Impact on America10:13 Moral Questions of Agency and Economics17:44 Healthcare: A Moral or Political Question?32:52 Government's Role in Problem Solving37:27 Morality of Law Enforcement Tactics45:25 Debt and Financial Responsibility in Society54:51 Generational Perspectives on Debt and Spending

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• Episode 143: AI's Spiritual Skeptics, Epstein & the Royal Crown, Charlie Kirk's Shooter vs Ben Lomond High School Shooter

  Send us a textWelcome back to the Latter Day Lens! This week, hosts Matt and Shawn are joined by Marc to tackle pressing questions at the intersection of faith, economics, and emerging technology.We dive into the listener mailbag to explore the concept of Consecrationism—the idea that a perfect system requires people to willingly share their property and excess—and whether it represents a "third way" that addresses the moral failings of Socialism and Capitalism. The discussion heats up with personal anecdotes on political shifts and a look at Matt's recent Deseret News op-ed.Then, we transition to the rapidly approaching reality of Artificial General Intelligence (AGI). We analyze Matt's survey data on Latter-day Saint attitudes toward AI, defining the three major groups: the Silicon Saints, the Compartmentalizers, and the Spiritual Skeptics. We debate the spiritual litmus test: Is using AI for a talk or guidance a form of "lukewarm" seeking, or is it a valid tool for a divinely creative people?Finally, we navigate two challenging ethical dilemmas:Parental Loyalty vs. Justice: Should a father help his son evade police after a crime, or insist on accountability, particularly within a potentially flawed justice system?Royal Justice: Did King Charles III stripping Prince Andrew of his titles represent a superior form of justice or merely an act of damage control and PR in the wake of the Epstein scandal?This episode's key topics: Consecrationism, Capitalism vs. Socialism, Generous Capitalism, AI and Faith, AGI, Spiritual Skeptics, LDS Economics, Prince Andrew, Epstein Files, and the Ethics of Accountability.Chapter Highlights (Jump to the Discussion!): 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 1:19  Mailbag: Consecrationism as the "Third Way" 2:27 The Ethics of Wealth and Charity (Billie Eilish) 3:00 Mark's Political Journey: From Marx to Capitalism 3:50 The Deseret News Op-Ed & Voting: To Vote or Not to Vote? 6:21 The Organized Intelligence Conference & LDS AI Survey 7:22  The Three Tribes: Silicon Saints, Compartmentalizers, & Spiritual Skeptics 8:16 The Litmus Test: Repenting to AI vs. Diligent Seeking 14:03 Elder Bednar, Creation, and the Danger of Passive Ingenuity 16:42 Justice Dilemma: The Ogden High School Shooting & Parental Loyalty 25:27 Royal PR vs. Real Justice: Prince Andrew & the Epstein Files 32:41 The AGI Utopia: Will AI Eliminate All Human Work? 37:25 The Downfall of Technology: From Telephones to AI Erotica

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• Episode 142: Islamophobia in New York, Zohran Mamdani's Socialism, A Record-Setting Grand Teton climb, and Trump's Pardons

  Send us a textIn this conversation, Matt and Shawn explore various themes including sibling dynamics, communication styles, the ethics of gambling, cultural perspectives on Islamophobia, and the moral implications of socialism versus capitalism. They also discuss the role of justice and mercy in the legal system, particularly in relation to presidential pardons and political loyalty.The Thought Provoker:First this week, Democratic mayoral nominee Zohran Mamdani delivered an emotional speech at a Bronx mosque, directly challenging what he called Islamophobic attacks, primarily from independent rival and former Governor Andrew Cuomo. Mamdani reacted strongly after Cuomo questioned his fitness to lead during a potential future "9/11," a comment that Mamdani claimed used veiled references to 9/11 and Islamic extremism. While Cuomo defended his remark by pointing to a past controversial comment by a Mamdani ally, Mamdani stressed that this language has made New York's Muslim population feel like outsiders. Cuomo later responded by accusing Mamdani of using a "dirty political trick" to divide the city. Should we be concerned about Islamophobia in the United States?Next up.  A new poll shows that more than half of all Democrats have a positive view of socialism. Two-thirds of Republicans have a positive view of capitalism. Is one system morally superior to the other?Finally. Record-setting mountain runner Michelino Sunseri was found guilty of a misdemeanor after spending just two minutes on a prohibited trail during his 2024 Grand Teton climb, where he set a new fastest known time (FKT). Sunseri, who had trained extensively, stated he left the switchback onto the restricted path, known as the Old Climber's Trail, to avoid casual hikers and possible injury, as he didn't want to yell for people to get out of his way while attempting the record. Is this an example of excessive government enforcement of the law?The Big Question: Since taking office again, President Trump has granted clemency to over 1,600 people, including a blanket pardon for nearly all charged in the January 6th Capitol attack and various high-profile figures. These pardons often waived over $1.3 billion in victim restitution and fines and favored political loyalists, a pattern legal experts call unprecedented. Is President Trump's use of the pardon power morally wrong?Chapters00:00 Sibling Dynamics and Communication Styles02:55 The Ethics of Gambling in Sports05:47 Islamophobia and Religious Freedom19:11 Debating Religious Doctrines and Their Implications19:55 Religious Tolerance and Freedom21:13 Socialism vs. Capitalism: Definitions and Perspectives24:17 Moral Superiority: Capitalism vs. Socialism29:09 The Impact of Economic Systems on Family Dynamics33:19 Property Rights and Violence: A Philosophical Debate39:42 The Principles of Socialism vs. Capitalism43:36 Discretion in Law Enforcement49:21 Pardons and Political Loyalty55:24 Justice and Mercy in Politics

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