Steve Pretty On The Origin of the Pieces

How do you tell the entire history of music?

If you're director and Cosmic Shambles co-founder Trent Burton, apparently you start with the Big Bang, interview more than 100 people around the world, and emerge four-and-a-half years later with a nine-part, 10.5-hour documentary.

This week I'm joined by Trent to talk about For the Record: An Incomplete History of Music, the enormous new series presented by Charlotte Ritchie, which travels from the origins of sound and the earliest music through notation, recording, jazz, rave culture, streaming and AI.

I've been deeply embedded in the project myself as music consultant and mix engineer, so this conversation quickly expands beyond the making of the documentary into some of the questions it raises.

How do you tell music history when music doesn't evolve in a straight line? What gets lost when oral traditions become notation — or performances become definitive recordings? And what happens to music when a machine can generate it on demand?

We get into live performance, improvisation, rave culture, cultural exchange and appropriation, active listening, the economics of grassroots live music, Robert Smith's battle with ticket pricing, and why a 10.5-hour independent music documentary may make more sense on YouTube than on broadcast television.

Midway through, there's some actual music too: an excerpt from Slack Tide, my piece for violinist Harriet Mackenzie and me, premiered at First Light Festival 2026 and based on the tidal cycle of the Suffolk coast.

IN THIS EPISODE

00:00 – Welcome back and introducing For the Record
02:30 – Trent Burton, Cosmic Shambles and how the project began
06:00 – How 90 minutes became nine episodes and 614 minutes
09:00 – The impossible problem of structuring music history
14:10 – Notation, oral traditions and writing music down
21:30 – Recording and the invention of the “definitive” version
24:30 – AI, commodification and the future of live music
31:00 – Electronic music, improvisation and musical jeopardy
37:00 – Music, humanity, grief and why sound can make us cry
44:00 – Musical interlude: Harriet Mackenzie and Slack Tide
48:40 – Active listening and learning how to hear unfamiliar music
52:00 – Cultural appropriation, exchange and context
59:30 – AI, commercial music and making a living
1:01:30 – The crisis in grassroots live music
1:04:10 – Robert Smith, The Cure and affordable tickets
1:05:45 – Why For the Record is on YouTube rather than TV
1:12:55 – What is the point of music?
1:14:00 – How is music evolving?
1:18:35 – The musical moments that weren't meant to happen

WATCH & EXPLORE

For the Record: An Incomplete History of Music
https://cosmicshambles.com/fortherecord/

Cosmic Shambles
https://cosmicshambles.com/

MUSIC FROM THIS EPISODE

Slack Tide – Steve Pretty & Harriet Mackenzie
https://youtu.be/1c9Urm13Ahw

The Lark Ascending – Steve Pretty & Harriet Mackenzie
https://youtu.be/ANBH_a-MPs8

Shells & Bells – Steve Pretty & Jason Singh
https://youtu.be/qCNOWeMf6pI

MORE FROM ORIGIN OF THE PIECES

Website – episodes, transcripts and mailing list
https://www.originofthepieces.com/

YouTube
https://youtube.com/@StevePretty

Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/StevePrettyOnTheOriginofthePieces

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This week, I’m joined by bass Barnaby Rea for a longer-than-usual opera special I mean if we're doing opera, we've gotta go long, right?!), recorded backstage at the Royal Opera House, London.

Barnaby is a British/Irish bass who trained at the Guildhall School of Music & Drama and the National Opera Studio. He was a Harewood Artist at English National Opera and a member of the Oper Frankfurt solo ensemble. He has also appeared with companies including the Royal Opera House, Deutsche Oper Berlin, Zurich Opera, Teatro Real, Opéra de Lyon, Scottish Opera and Opera North.

We recorded this while Barnaby was performing Doctor Grenvil in Verdi’s La traviata, in Richard Eyre’s long-running Royal Opera production.

This episode was also partly inspired by a recent visit to Milan and the extraordinary Teatro alla Scala, which got me thinking about opera not just as music, but as architecture, social ritual, commerce, class, spectacle and power.

So this is partly a conversation about opera singing, partly a look at the machinery of a major opera house, and partly an attempt to understand why opera can feel both thrillingly immediate and socially intimidating.

We talk about opera vs musical theatre, why singers train for so long, how a voice can fill a huge theatre without amplification, what “placement” and resonance mean, and why vibrato is not just decorative wobbling.

We also get into opera’s social context: boxes, gods, stalls, ticket prices, access, prestige, and whether opera’s elitist reputation is entirely fair.

There’s also a wider reflection on live music now: why huge arena shows can dominate the public story of the music industry while smaller venues, grassroots promoters, festivals and independent musicians are struggling.

This is a longer episode than usual, but that feels fitting for opera: there is a lot of voice, history, scale and backstage machinery to get into.

In this episode
00:00 – Steve introduces the opera special, Barnaby Rea, the Royal Opera House and the Milan / La Scala inspiration
01:35 – Barnaby’s route into opera: school swing band, musical theatre, Sweeney Todd, Guys and Dolls and early training
07:30 – Guildhall, opera school, learning the craft, and why opera takes so long to train for properly
12:30 – Singing in different languages and understanding what you are actually saying
15:40 – Opera vs musical theatre: amplification, stamina, acting, dancing and vocal demands
20:45 – Inside the Royal Opera House: backstage scale, sets, docks, ballet and multiple productions
24:45 – La Scala, opera boxes, social hierarchy, standing tickets and opera as mass entertainment
30:05 – Arena economics, struggling grassroots venues, festivals and why smaller gigs matter
36:50 – Is opera elitist? Ticket prices, access, class, prestige and opera culture in Europe
42:35 – Entertaining Noises: Barnaby demonstrates the bass voice
43:00 – Breath, resonance, placement, formant, range and preparing different roles
50:15 – Show days, double casting, vocal recovery, travel, jump-ins and the pressure of saying yes
55:00 – Berg, volume, singing without microphones, working with the room, and breathing with the orchestra
01:00:30 – Vibrato: what it is, why it exists, and why it is not just decorative wobbling
01:03:10 – Steve attempts a brief opera lesson
01:07:40 – Learning roles, memory, punctuality, preparation and what performers can control
01:12:45 – What is music for? Barnaby on release, escape, connection and performance
01:15:50 – Music as personal soundtrack, film scoring, galleries, headphones and emotional recontextualising
01:16:40 – Barnaby’s links, La traviata and walking into productions with decades of history
01:18:35 – Outro: Peter Grimes, Wilton’s Music Hall, Ocean Songs, the website and what’s coming next
Guest
Find Barnaby Rea at barnabyrea.com and on Instagram at @barnabyrea_bass.
Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/StevePrettyOnTheOriginofthePieces
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A collaboration with What We Did Before on the deep history of music, from prehistoric instruments and ritual to place, technology and AI.

A slightly different episode this time. Instead of the usual format, I’m sharing an interview I did for the excellent podcast What We Did Before. This particular episode, Before Music: Cave Rituals and Ancient Instruments | Steve Pretty explores where music may have come from, what it might have looked and sounded like before recorded history, and what those origins can still tell us now.

We get into prehistoric conch shells and bone flutes, the role of ritual, why location and environment matter to how music develops, and how some of those ancient questions suddenly loop back round when you start thinking about AI-generated music. In other words: caves, culture, creativity, and the usual big weird human questions.

I also mention a couple of live dates at the top of the episode. Ocean Songs is at East Point Pavilion in Lowestoft on Saturday 21st March, and the album launch is at Theatreship in London on Tuesday 24th March. My next live edition of Steve Pretty On the Origin of the Pieces is at Wilton’s Music Hall on Tuesday 19th May, featuring Jim Bob.

In this episode

a collaboration with What We Did Before
where music may have come from
prehistoric instruments, including conch shells and bone flutes
music, ritual and early human culture
why place and environment shape musical traditions
some thoughts on AI and what it means for music now

Also mentioned

Ocean Songs at East Point Pavilion, 21st March
Ocean Songs album launch at Theatreship, 24th March
Steve Pretty On the Origin of the Pieces live at Wilton’s Music Hall, 19th May

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In this episode, I’m dedicating the show to Nathaniel Dye — musician, music teacher, brass band obsessive, ultramarathon runner, and one of the most quietly extraordinary people I’ve met. We begin with Nat performing his song “Public Service Announcement” (recorded live at my Wilton’s Music Hall show in November 2024) — a funny, furious, razor-sharp call to take bowel cancer symptoms seriously.

Nat sadly died recently from complications related to bowel cancer. This episode is part tribute, part replay, part attempt to hold onto the actual substance of what he stood for: making things, teaching people, and choosing music — not as escapism, but as a meaningful way to use the time you’ve got.

You’ll also hear excerpts from my “Listen like a musician” series, and then a replay of my earlier interview with Nat (from Episode 10), where he talks about his diagnosis, his fundraising, his trombone marathon plans, and what music became for him after everything changed.

In this episode

Nat’s live performance of “Public Service Announcement”
Why he threw himself back into teaching and music-making after treatment
The story behind Bowel Cancer Bucket List and the fundraising work
A replay of our earlier chat: music, mortality, and doing the thing anyway
The episode outro: Nat’s music, accompanied by bass/tuba greats Guy Pratt and Theon Cross

Links & references

Bowel Cancer Bucket List (Nat’s site + donation links): bowelcancerbucketlist.com
Matters of Life and Death (album page): Bowel Cancer Bucket List – album page
Matters of Life and Death (Spotify): Spotify album link
“Public Service Announcement” (Spotify track): Spotify track link
Donate to Macmillan Cancer Support: Macmillan donation page
Guy Pratt: guypratt.com
Theon Cross who appears in Nat's closing song too: theoncross.com

Stay musically curious.
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Episode 37 - A clap, a Slap and a Stomp

What actually is musical time? In this episode, Steve kicks off 2026 with the first four days of his “12 Days of Listening” mini-series — all about pulse, groove, and how our brains latch onto patterns (sometimes to our advantage, sometimes not).

Then we jump to Wilton’s Music Hall (January 2025) for a live guest spot from Aluá Nascimento — Brazilian percussionist, multi-instrumentalist, and former STOMP cast member — starting with a trumpet + pandeiro duet on “Brazil” and expanding into body percussion, Afro-Brazilian rhythm traditions, and the wonderfully low-tech joy of making music out of whatever’s around.

Along the way, Aluá talks about growing up around capoeira, how culture and history shaped these sounds, and demonstrates instruments including berimbau (musical bow), caxixi (shaker), and pandeiro — with a bit of audience participation thrown in too.

In this episode

A practical listening upgrade: pulse vs rhythm (try it while walking)
“The pocket”: groove as micro-timing, not just the pattern
Why your brain is basically a pattern-hunting drummer
Shared time / entrainment: why humans sync up (and why it matters in music)
Live at Wilton’s: trumpet + pandeiro on “Brazil”
Aluá’s story: capoeira roots, Afro-Brazilian traditions, and the STOMP years
Instruments you’ll hear: body percussion, pandeiro, berimbau, caxixi (and more)

Find Aluá

Instagram
Beat Goes On (bio + workshops)
Watch: Aluá Nascimento & Helene Jank – Body Music (YouTube)

Also in this episode

Steve mentions Episode 36 (breaking down how the My Friend Maisy theme was made)
Wilton’s Music Hall shows: 24th January — kids/family show at 2pm, evening show at 7pm

Support the show

Explore episodes, transcripts, and more: originofthepieces.com
Join the Patreon: patreon.com/StevePrettyOnTheOriginofthePieces
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