UNAPOLOGETIC

South Africa’s former minister of international relations, Naledi Pandor, speaks to us about the why South Africa took Israel to court for genocide. We also speak about why the world has still not yet intervened decisively and has allowed Israel to continue its onslaught in Gaza, whether international institutions will break down under a new Trump presidency and in the aftermath of Israel’s impunity, changes in global power away from the North towards a more multipolar reality, and what can be done to stop Israel.Pandor grew up in a political family and as a child she was exiled from South Africa to go to Lesotho, Zambia and the United Kingdom, where her family contributed to South Africa’s freedom struggle. She draws on that experience and from her experience as being part of South Africa’s democratic government for three decades to tell us the challenges that lie ahead for Palestinian liberation and offers advice on how that road can be trodden.

“Fighting racism in silos that was invented by racism doesn’t make any sense.”Rachel Shabi is an author, journalist and commentator, and she has recently published her second book, Off-White: The Truth About Antisemitism.Shabi joined us for a conversation about her book, the fate of Arab-Jewish identity, how Israel’s war on Gaza is polarising global society and how the racist logic that defined so many colonial crimes is still at play today, justifying war crimes in the last few decades.Chapters00:00 Intro 02:04 How significant is the war in Gaza06:24 Why you chose to write Off-White and being an Iraqi Jew12:30 How did 7th October impact Off-White15:30 The wealth and loss of her Arab-Jewish identity19:25 Arab-Jewish displacement from origin countries27:30 Journey with Palestinian liberation31:10 The Iraq war36:20 The fakery of whiteness and origins of antisemitism42:20 Haven't all empires weaponised racism?47:54 How the US policy in the Middle East fuels antisemitic tropes53:15 Why does racist bias self-perpetuate and its consequences01:03:02 How can Jewish societies be safe01:08:12 What will be the future of Israel-Palestine?01:10:14 The single takeaway from your book, Off-White

“I think the Arab leaders are going to be the victims of this genocide in Gaza.”Wadah Khanfar is the founder and executive director of the Al-Sharq Forum. He is also the former director general of the Al Jazeera Media Network.We speak to Khanfar about Gaza, the prospect of regional war, what it means to be a Palestinian and an Arab at this moment in time, and how the frustration being felt by Arabs due to “genocide” in Gaza will manifest itself.Khanfar also recalls his time as a journalist in Afghanistan and Iraq and how the challenges he faced there compare with what journalists in Gaza are going through now. And he speaks about what inspired him to write his book, The first Spring, which is about what drove the strategic goals of the Prophet Muhammad. 

In a conversation with Dr. Azzam Tamimi - who is a scholar of political science and has written books on the history of Hamas - we discuss the legacy of Yahya Sinwar.Was it a miscalculation for Israel to release footage of how the Hamas leader was killed? What will it mean for the war? What are Israel's war ambitions and will they succeed?