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Lasers in Skin

Podcast Lasers in Skin
Lisa McMahon & Mike Murphy
Lasers in Skin Podcast, hosted by "Laser Guru" Mike Murphy, and his daughter Lisa McMahon, dives into the science of lasers in aesthetics. Mike and Lisa delve i...

Available Episodes

5 of 8
  • Let's Talk Regulations
    In this episode, Mike and Lisa delve into the anticipated new regulations for laser treatments set to be introduced in Scotland in 2026. Drawing from Mike's extensive experience in the industry since opening the world's first tattoo removal clinic in 1989, they discuss the current regulatory landscape, the potential qualifications required for practitioners, and the importance of medical oversight for certain treatments. There is confusion surrounding existing regulations and a need for clarity as the industry evolves. KEY TAKEAWAYS New regulations regarding laser treatments in Scotland are expected to be proposed in 2026, with ongoing discussions about the qualifications required for practitioners. The first laser clinic for tattoo removal opened in Glasgow in 1989, and despite expectations for new regulations over the years, significant changes have yet to be implemented. Current recommendations suggest different qualification levels for various laser treatments, with Level 4 for IPL and laser hair removal, Level 5 for laser tattoo removal, and higher levels potentially requiring medical oversight. There is a lack of clarity regarding what constitutes "medical oversight" in the context of laser treatments, leading to confusion among practitioners about compliance and training requirements. Those currently using lasers should consider obtaining the necessary qualifications before the new regulations take effect, as failure to comply could result in business disruptions and insurance issues. BEST MOMENTS "When I first started in this industry about 375 years ago. We opened the world's first clinic in Glasgow, right? It was the first clinic in the world to offer Q-switched ruby laser treatment of tattoos." "It appears to me that they don't take these things with any sort of serious level of priority. Which is a real shame because it has become a bit of a wild west out there." "Our advice right now is just wait and see what's going to happen. If you know that you are doing these treatments, look into getting your full qualifications if you've not got them yet." "The current setup suggests that if you're using CO2 lasers for skin treatments, then you need to have medical oversight. So there needs to be some sort of a medically qualified person in the loop somewhere." "If you decide to go ahead and use the lasers outside of the requirements of the regulations, then your insurance probably will be void. If something goes wrong, your insurance company will just walk away." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring. Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com https://www.dermalasetraining.com
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  • Is Skin Cooling Important for All Technologies
    In today's episode, Mike and Lisa delve into the critical topic of skin cooling during laser treatments. They discuss the importance of maintaining optimal temperatures to prevent pain and thermal damage to surrounding tissues, particularly collagen. Mike explains the thermodynamics behind laser energy absorption and the necessity of using effective cooling methods, such as ice packs, to draw heat away from the skin. The duo also addresses common misconceptions about air and cryo cooling systems, emphasising that while they can be effective, they often fall short in providing the same level of cooling as ice packs. KEY TAKEAWAYS Effective cooling is crucial during laser treatments to prevent pain and thermal damage to surrounding tissues. Cooling should be applied before, during, and after the treatment. When using lasers, light energy is converted into heat, which raises the temperature of both the target and surrounding tissues. To avoid triggering pain (nociceptor activation) and damaging collagen, it's essential to keep temperatures below 45 degrees Celsius. Ice packs, when used with a water-based gel, are more effective than air cooling systems. The gel enhances heat transfer, allowing for quicker cooling of the skin, which is vital for protecting nerve endings and preventing unwanted thermal damage. Just as heating requires time to be effective, cooling also needs to be applied for a sufficient duration. For optimal results, ice packs should be left on the skin for at least two minutes to ensure adequate cooling. While air and cryo cooling systems can provide some level of cooling, they may not be as effective as ice packs due to their inability to maintain the necessary temperature for the required duration. Users often report discomfort with cryo systems, preferring ice packs for a more comfortable experience. BEST MOMENTS "If you're going to be deliberately heating the skin, then you need to also deliberately cool simultaneously to not only reduce the pain sensation, but also reduce any unwanted thermal damage." "You don't need gel in the skin, but more importantly, it enhances the heat transfer from the skin into the cooling agent." "Cooling is kind of like inverse heating. You need to apply it for a given time to induce the desired effect." "If you put ice on the skin surface with some gel, and you leave it for two minutes, then the top of the dermis will drop down to two degrees Celsius." "Ultimately, our advice is always to use ice packs. It absolutely sucks, but oh my gosh, it's so much better for everybody." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring. Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com https://www.dermalasetraining.com
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  • Explain Like I'm Five - Fluence and Frequency
    In this episode, Mike and Lisa dive into the concept of fluence, a critical factor in laser treatments. They explain fluence as the concentration of energy delivered to the skin, emphasising its importance in achieving successful results for various procedures like hair removal, tattoo removal, and treating blood vessels. They also cover related terms such as pulse width and wavelength, using relatable analogies to simplify complex physics concepts. KEY TAKEAWAYS Fluence refers to the concentration of energy delivered to the skin during laser treatments, measured in joules per square centimetre. It is crucial for achieving effective results in procedures targeting hair follicles, blood vessels, and pigmentation. There are minimum and maximum thresholds for fluence. If the fluence is below the minimum, little to no effect will occur. Conversely, exceeding the maximum fluence can cause unwanted damage to surrounding skin tissues. Pulse width (or pulse duration) is the length of time that energy is delivered to the skin. It does not directly correlate with the reaction time of the tissues, as the actual processing within the tissues can last longer than the pulse width itself. Wavelength indicates the colour of the light used in treatments, measured in nanometers. Precise measurements allow for clear communication about specific colours and their applications in laser technology. Useful penetration depth combines the wavelength with fluence. It is essential for ensuring that the energy reaches the target area effectively and retains enough fluence to produce the desired therapeutic effect, especially in treatments like tattoo removal. BEST MOMENTS "Fluence is basically your make or break for any of these treatments that we are doing. To me, fluence is king. That's the main driver of pretty much all these reactions." "If you, the pulse width is basically like the little bus that brings the fluence. No, it's the bus journey. It's the duration of the bus journey." "The pulse width is just a technical thing designed into the laser, but it doesn't actually translate into the cooking or the denaturation process, the chemical processes within the tissues." "You could say, well, the penetration depth of that is three, four, five millimetres, but it's not going to do anything." "If you like what you're listening to and you want to listen to more of us or see our lovely faces more, please follow us on all of our social medias." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring. Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com https://www.dermalasetraining.com
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  • Ever Felt Like an Imposter? - An Interview with Dr Marc Reid
    In this episode Mike and Lisa sit down with Dr. Marc Reid, author of "You Are Not a Fraud: The Scientist's Guide to Imposter Syndrome." Together they delve into the complexities of imposter experiences, exploring their origins, manifestations, and strategies for managing them. With personal anecdotes and insights from Dr. Reid's research, including a survey of over a thousand participants, the discussion highlights the commonality of these feelings among professionals, particularly during career transitions. KEY TAKEAWAYS Imposter syndrome, or the imposter phenomenon, is a common experience where individuals doubt their accomplishments and fear being exposed as a fraud, despite evidence of their competence. Scoring high on imposter syndrome assessments (like a 76% score) is not inherently good or bad; it highlights the importance of awareness about one's feelings and experiences rather than labelling them negatively. Major life changes, such as career shifts or becoming a parent, can trigger feelings of imposter syndrome. These transitions often lead to self-doubt and the perception of inadequacy. The terminology used to describe imposter experiences can influence how individuals perceive their feelings. Referring to it as an "experience" rather than a "syndrome" can help normalize the feelings and reduce the stigma associated with them. It's essential to recognise that imposter feelings can resurface, especially during new challenges. Strategies for managing these feelings include self-reflection, understanding the origins of these feelings, and reframing them as a normal part of growth and ambition. BEST MOMENTS "There is no good or bad or ugly. There's only awareness. That's what the whole scoring system is about." "If I had my time again, I wouldn't even call it imposter phenomenon. I would call it the imposter experience." "The very first paper written on it mentioned imposter phenomenon. Yet, if you ask 100 people in a room, have you heard of imposter phenomenon? Maybe one or two wee hands." "I would first off tell you that if I did this now, I would be in the nineties. Oh, a hundred percent. I am worse now than when I did that." "It's highly likely if there was ever going to be a scenario in which someone would start to have those questions or self-doubts, that's when it might happen." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring. Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com https://www.dermalasetraining.com
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  • Ask Dermalase Anything
    In this episode, Mike and Lisa dive into a lively question-and-answer session, addressing a variety of topics related to laser technology and safety. They discuss common misleading claims made by laser suppliers, particularly regarding hair removal capabilities and output power, emphasising the importance of understanding fluence over mere wattage. The duo also shares humorous anecdotes, including Mike's penchant for dad jokes and a lighthearted debate about safety goggles versus ice pack cooling during laser treatments. KEY TAKEAWAYS Many laser suppliers make exaggerated or false claims about their machines, such as the ability to treat all hair and skin colours. The Long Pulse YAG laser is noted as the only one that can treat dark hair on various skin tones, while other lasers have limitations. The actual effectiveness of a laser treatment is more about fluence (energy density on the skin surface) than the total power output of the machine. High peak power claims can be misleading, as the average power and fluence are what truly matter for effective treatment. Eye protection is crucial when using lasers. While skin can heal over time, the eyes cannot be replaced, making it essential to prioritize safety goggles over cooling methods during laser procedures. It's vital to measure the output fluence of laser devices, as many machines do not deliver the energy they claim. Proper training and calibration are necessary to ensure effective and safe treatments. The hosts emphasise the importance of understanding and adapting to the specific characteristics of each laser machine. Personal experience and testing are key to mastering the use of these devices and ensuring client safety. BEST MOMENTS "The most obvious wrong claims tend to be things like our laser can treat all hair colours and all skin colours. You just can't treat those, because there's not enough melanin in those hairs to give you a sufficient reaction." "It's really the fluence that's the important parameter there. You could say, well, I have a 5,000 watt instead of a 3,000 watt diode system, but it's not really the power that's important." "If you have a diode laser, you should not be treating skin tones 5 and 6. Those wavelengths will just damage the skin." "You need to measure the fluence coming out of it or measure the energy and divide by the area. Without doing that, you cannot really know what it's going to do." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring. Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com https://www.dermalasetraining.com
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About Lasers in Skin

Lasers in Skin Podcast, hosted by "Laser Guru" Mike Murphy, and his daughter Lisa McMahon, dives into the science of lasers in aesthetics. Mike and Lisa delve into the fundamental physics all laser technicians must understand to get the best results, while squashing the myths, the "marketing baloney" and calling out poor training in the industry. Along with unmissable interviews and 'ask us anything' episodes, the Lasers in Skin Podcast is the ultimate podcast for laser geeks!
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