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Sounds of SAND

Science and Nonduality
Sounds of SAND
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  • Sounds of SAND

    Mysticism of Sound & Music: Michael Harrison (Encore)

    21/05/2026 | 59 mins.
    We are resharing this episode in memory of Michael Harrison, who passed away on April 17, 2026. He was 67.

    In this episode, we discuss the life and work of musician and Sufi teacher Hazrat Inayat Khan with composer/pianist and Inayat Khan scholar Michael Harrison.

    Hazrat Inayat Khan ( July 1882 – 5 February 1927) was an Indian professor of musicology, singer, exponent of the saraswati vina, poet, philosopher, and pioneer of the transmission of Sufism to the West. At the urging of his students, and on the basis of his ancestral Sufi tradition and four-fold training and authorization at the hands of Sayyid Abu Hashim Madani (d. 1907) of Hyderabad, he established an order of Sufism (the Sufi Order) in London in 1914. By the time of his death in 1927, centers had been established throughout Europe and North America, and multiple volumes of his teachings had been published.

    Michael Harrison (October 24, 1958 - April 17, 2026) forged a new approach to composition through just intonation (the system of tuning based on pure harmonic proportions). His works blend classical music traditions of Europe and North India. He is a Guggenheim Fellowship and NYFA Artist Fellowship recipient.

    Michael created dedicated tuning systems for many of his works. He pioneered a structural approach to composition in which the proportions of harmonic relationships organically determine other musical elements such as pitch, duration, and dynamics. He also invented the “harmonic piano,” a grand piano that plays 24 notes per octave, documented in the Grove Dictionary of Musical Instruments. Harrison seeks expressions of universality via the physics of sound – music that brings one into a state of concentrated listening as a meditative and even mind-altering experience.

    At the time of his death he was working on “The Raga Cycle”, a series of albums charting the hours of the day through Hindustani raga. The first installment, Evening Light, was released in March 2026 on Cantaloupe Records. More albums in the series were recorded before he became too ill to continue. They will be released in the years ahead.

    Donations in his memory can be made to the Michael Harrison Foundation for Just Music at JustMusic.org.

    Topics

    00:00 Podcast Welcome

    00:22 Encore Tribute

    02:28 Mysticism Book Intro

    02:49 Spiritual Music Path

    04:32 Conservatory And Tonality

    06:37 Daily Raga Practice

    12:55 Voice Breath And Wazifa

    16:48 Creation As Vibration

    20:14 Harmony East And West

    24:07 Math Of Consonance

    25:32 Temperament Versus Just

    28:24 Tuning The Soul Quote

    32:03 Piano Retuning Journey

    35:54 432 Versus 440

    39:56 Music As Universal Religion

    46:02 Cage Oliveros Deep Listening

    51:16 Commentary And Curriculum

    53:08 Teaching Programs

    55:26 Closing Thanks And Outro

    Links

    Michael Harrison — His Own Work

    Evening Light: Raga Cycle I — Cantaloupe Music (2026)

    Seven Sacred Names — Bandcamp (2021)

    Revelation: Music in Pure Intonation — Cantaloupe Music (2007)

    From Ancient Worlds — michaelharrison.com

    Time Loops with Maya Beiser — Cantaloupe Music (2012)

    Michael Harrison website

    Episode Music

    Michael Harrison — "Mureed" from Seven Sacred Names (2021, Cantaloupe Music)

    Michael Harrison — "Alim: Polyphonic Raga Malkauns" from Seven Sacred Names (2021, Cantaloupe Music)

    Michael Harrison — "Qadr: Etude in Raga Bhimpalasi" from Seven Sacred Names (2021, Cantaloupe Music)

    Hazrat Inayat Khan — "Purvi Khal: Kamli Wale Tope Sabkuchhvare" (2022, Primitiv)

    Michael Harrison – “Sami: The Acoustic Constellation” from Seven Sacred Names (2021, Cantaloupe Music)

    Hazrat Inayat Khan

    The Mysticism of Sound and Music — Goodreads

    Inayat Khan 1909 78rpm Recordings — YouTube

    Hazrat Inayat Khan — Wikipedia

    The Inayat Order — Pir Zia Inayat Khan

    Turning Toward the Heart — SAND Podcast with Pir Zia Inayat Khan

    Teachers & Lineage

    Pandit Pran Nath — Wikipedia

    La Monte Young — Wikipedia

    Terry Riley — Wikipedia

    Pir Vilayat Khan — Wikipedia

    Ustad Mashkoor Ali Khan — Wikipedia

    Other Composers & Artists Referenced

    Pauline Oliveros — Center for Deep Listening® — Michael Reiley's teacher; creator of Deep Listening practice

    Pauline Oliveros — paulineoliveros.us

    John Cage — Wikipedia — composer, Zen Buddhist, creator of 4'33"

    Arvo Pärt — Wikipedia

    Hildegard of Bingen — Wikipedia

    Ravi Shankar — Wikipedia

    George Harrison Concert for Bangladesh — YouTube

    Roomful of Teeth — website

    John Eliot Gardiner — Wikipedia

    Josquin des Prez — Wikipedia

    Claudio Monteverdi — Wikipedia

    J.S. Bach — Wikipedia

    Programs & Institutions

    Arts, Letters and Numbers — Creative Music Intensive

    Michael Harrison Foundation for Just Music — donations in his memory

    Manhattan School of Music — where the harmonic piano is now archived

    Contact SAND

    [email protected]

    Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member
  • Sounds of SAND

    The Great AI Unraveling, Part 2: Tiokasin Ghosthorse & Pooja Prema

    14/05/2026 | 1h 23 mins.
    This is the second gathering in SAND's ongoing series on AI and the human spirit — and it takes a deliberately different rhythm. Rather than asking "is AI safe?" or "will it take our jobs?", Tiokasin Ghosthorse and Pooja Prema invite us to slow down and ask the deeper questions: What cosmology is AI extending? What is intelligence, really? And what happens when the earth-based, organic, living intelligence of Indigenous and ancestral ways of knowing gets replaced by a synthetic one? A spacious, felt-sense conversation that asks us to remember what a living mind actually is.

    Timestamps

    00:00 — Welcome & framing the deeper questions

    00:04 — Opening body practice: tuning into felt sense before speaking

    00:07 — Tiokasin: AI as the latest ship on the shore — colonization in a new form

    00:17 — "There is no artificial intuition" — what technology cannot replace

    00:18 — Pooja: the cosmology behind AI — colonial linearity vs. the curving motherboard of Earth

    00:25 — AI as the latest savior narrative — and why that story keeps repeating

    00:45 — Who owns the data? Who controls the intelligence? The politics of AI

    01:05 — AI as therapist, AI replacing elders — the cost to young people and mental health

    01:10 — Ghost in the Machine: how to resist empire over the long game

    01:15 — Closing: "Our body is the mystic" — an invitation to make this a living inquiry

    Guests

    Tiokasin Ghosthorse is a member of the Cheyenne River Lakota Nation and lifelong Indigenous activist. He is the founder and host of First Voices Radio, which broadcast for 33 years before its final episode in July 2025. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2016, is a National Native American Hall of Fame nominee, and a master musician who performs worldwide. He describes himself simply as "a perfectly flawed human being." He is also featured in SAND's film The Eternal Song.

    Pooja Prema is a first-generation Indian American writer, multidisciplinary artist, and ritualist from Kerala, South India. Her work weaves ecofeminism, decolonial somatic practice, and animistic cosmologies. She is the founder of The Rites of Passage Project and The Ritual Theatre. Her work has been featured at the Kennedy Center, Ebony Magazine, and NPR.

    Resources & Links

    Tiokasin Ghosthorse

    Akantu Intelligence — website

    First Voices Radio — archive

    Featured in The Eternal Song — SAND film

    Pooja Prema

    Website: poojaprema.com

    The Rites of Passage Project

    The Ritual Theatre

    Instagram: @thecabinwitch

    Film referenced

    Ghost in the Machine — documentary directed by Valerie Veatch, Sundance 2026 — traces the buried history of AI and its roots in eugenics, racism, and colonial power. Featuring Tasheka Lavann on how indigenous nations are resisting data centers and how we resist empire over generations.

    Concepts discussed

    Conspecific aggression — Tiokasin's term for what happens when a species competes so aggressively over shared resources that it turns on itself

    Present-phobic language — technology as a tool for escaping the present into an imagined future

    The real motherboard — Pooja's framing of Earth and cosmos as the original curving, relational, non-linear intelligence that AI's linear grid cannot replicate

    SAND series context

    Part 1 of The Great AI Unraveling — with Tristan Harris

    The Eternal Song — SAND film series

    Contact SAND

    [email protected]

    Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member
  • Sounds of SAND

    The Indigenous Paradigm: Pat McCabe & Lynn Murphy

    07/05/2026 | 1h 1 mins.
    Originally recorded at Science and Nonduality, 2021

    Pat McCabe, also known as Woman Stands Shining, is a Diné elder, ceremonial prayer leader, and international speaker adopted into the Lakota spiritual way of life. In this conversation hosted by Lynn Murphy, Pat offers a profound invitation to examine the foundational assumptions of the modern world paradigm and consider what it might mean to live from a genuinely different understanding of what it is to be human.

    Drawing on teachings from her clan grandfather, her experience of intergenerational trauma and survival, and her deep inquiry into masculine and feminine principles, Pat maps the territory between the glittering world we are leaving and the green world we are entering. The conversation opens in ceremony and closes with a practice: a morning sunrise offering that anyone can begin today.

    Lynn Murphy is a strategic advisor for foundations and NGOs working in the geopolitical South. She was a senior fellow and program officer at the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation where she focused on international education and global development. She resigned as a ”conscientious objector” to neocolonial philanthropy. She holds an MA and PhD in international comparative education from Stanford University. She is also a certified Laban/Bartenieff movement analyst.

    This episode is released in celebration of SAND’s new film featuring Pat McCabe, Little Singer, premiering online May 26-28, 2026, as part of the Eternal Song series.

    Timestamps

    00:00:00 — Introduction

    00:01:45 — Lynn Murphy introduces Pat McCabe: Diné nation, Lakota spiritual way, Defend the Sacred alliance

    00:05:00 — Pat introduces herself through her clans — clan names as places on the earth, worlds more than this one

    00:07:00 — Traveling through worlds: the flood, men and women, and the movement from the glittering world to the green world

    00:15:00 — The two paradigms: indigenous versus modern world — "I am a human being, relative to all my relations"

    00:34:00 — Trailer for Little Singer — premiering online May 26-28, 2026 — theeternalsong.org/littlesinger

    00:35:00 — Masculine and feminine principles: power over versus power with, the sacred hoop, and right relations

    00:52:00 — A practice for beginning: the morning sunrise offering and the teaching on consent, sovereignty, and honorable relationship with all beings

    Resources and Links

    Pat McCabe — Woman Stands Shining Website: patmccabe.net

    Little Singer — Eternal Song Series Online premiere: May 26-28, 2026 Three-day event with Diné voices

    Mentioned in the episode Robin Wall Kimmerer — Braiding Sweetgrass (plant sovereignty, honorable harvest) Lakota spiritual traditions — Seven Generations teaching Diné (Navajo) Nation — Long Walk history, Bosque Redondo concentration camp, 1860s Residential boarding school history — US government and church collaboration Masculine and feminine principles in economics and right relations — ongoing inquiry in Pat's work

    Episode artwork “Woman Stands Shining” by Namita

    Contact SAND

    [email protected]

    Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member
  • Sounds of SAND

    What Empire Cannot Erase: Fatemeh Keshavarz-Karamustafa, Omid Safi & Mays Imad

    30/04/2026 | 1h 17 mins.
    Persian Poetry, Radical Love, and the Soul of Iran

    “The path to God goes through that most difficult of beings, the human being.”

    – Omid Safi

    Recorded live at a SAND Community Gathering (April 2026). Watch the full conversation on the SAND Website.



    We are watching, once again, what empire does: not only to bodies, but to the long memory of a people; to the libraries and sacred sites; to art, language, and the ruins that hold the oldest threads of human spiritual inquiry.

    We are thinking of the civilization that gave us Rumi, Hafez, Omar Khayyam, Forough Farrokhzad — mystics and rebels and lovers of paradox who understood something about the human soul that we are still, centuries later, trying to catch up to.

    This gathering invited us to come together: to read poetry aloud, to hear from Iranian voices, to sit with grief and beauty together rather than alone.

    We work with political and moral vocabulary shaped by Iranian thinkers such as Ali Shariati, who wrote against domination, spiritual emptiness, and the violence of imposed power.

    We make space for what doesn’t fit into headlines or talking points—the complexity of empire, the difference between a government and its people, the authoritarian forces at work not only abroad but here at home. We also gather with the political inheritance of those who taught generations to resist domination and spiritual emptiness, including Ali Shariati.

    Guests

    Omid Safi is a scholar of the Islamic mystical tradition and professor of Islamic Studies at Duke University. He is the author of Memories of Muhammad and Radical Love: Teachings from the Islamic Mystical Tradition, and teaches online courses on Muslim mysticism. He leads contemplative journeys to Turkey, Morocco, and Mecca/Medina through Illuminated Courses.

    Fatemeh Keshavarz is the Roshan Institute Chair in Persian Language and Literature and Director of the Roshan Institute Center for Persian Studies at the University of Maryland. A poet in Persian and English, she is the author of Reading Mystical Lyric, Recite in the Name of the Red Rose, Jasmine and Stars: Reading More Than Lolita in Tehran, and Lyrics of Life: Sa'di on Love, Cosmopolitanism and Care of the Self. She has spoken at the UN General Assembly and received the Peabody Award for her NPR program on Rumi.

    Mays Imad, PhD (facilitator) is a neuroscientist, educator, and associate professor at Connecticut College whose work bridges neuroscience, philosophy, and education. An Iraqi immigrant who lived through wars and displacement, she brings both personal and scholarly depth to the themes of trauma, remembrance, and repair through the embodied nervous system.

    Timestamps

    00:00 — Welcome & framing

    00:02 — Mays Imad opens: grief, urgency, and love

    00:06 — Introducing Omid Safi & Fatemeh Keshavarz

    00:07 — Saadi, Rumi, and the Persian tradition

    00:12 — The war on Iran: what is being destroyed

    00:21 — Don't bypass grief — the Persian mystics knew this

    00:27 — Saadi on truth, power, and interconnection

    00:32 — Fatemeh: togetherness, invisibilization, and Iranian resilience

    00:38 — Poetry as the Silk Road of imagination

    00:52 — War's corruption of language — and poetry as antidote

    01:04 — Remembrance as ethical act

    01:10 — Intergenerational love & closing

    Resources & Links

    Omid Safi

    Illuminated Courses — books, podcast, courses, tours

    Duke University faculty page

    Radical Love: Teachings from the Islamic Mystical Tradition — Yale University Press

    Memories of Muhammad: Why the Prophet Matters — HarperOne

    Podcast: Sufi Heart — Be Here Now Network

    The Heart of Rumi's Poetry — online course

    Upcoming events:

    Evening workshop in London, May 5th — "Islamic Spirituality in an Age of Conflict"

    Contemplative journey to Turkey, June 1–12

    Rumi Retreat in Marrakech, November 22–28

    Fatemeh Keshavarz

    Website

    Jasmine and Stars: Reading More Than Lolita in Tehran

    Lyrics of Life: Sa'di on Love, Cosmopolitanism and Care of the Self

    Cowboys and Iranians — poem by Fatemeh Keshavarz (video)

    Birds Without a Name — poem by Fatemeh Keshavarz, read at ARHU event on Hope & Home (video)

    Mays Imad

    Personal website

    Connecticut College faculty page

    Music featured

    Watan (وَطَن — "Homeland") performed by Shaghayegh Amiri, playing the Daf — the ancient Persian frame drum central to Sufi musical tradition

    Ali Ghamsari — solo on the Kamancheh (Persian bowed string instrument), taught by Hamidreza Afarideh, music teacher in Tehran

    Poets and texts referenced in depth

    Rumi (Jalal al-Din Rumi, 1207–1273) — Persian Sufi mystic and poet; his Masnavi opens with pain and grief; central throughout

    Sa'di Shirazi (1210–1291) — Iranian Sufi poet; his Golestan (Garden of Roses) is where Iranians learn to read and write; complete English translation by Thackston available; Fatemeh's Lyrics of Life goes deeper on Sa'di

    Hafez (14th century) — Persian lyric poet; Fatemeh discusses his use of the word hush as an example of how poetic language restores meaning

    Farid ud-Din Attar (born 1150) — author of Mantiq ut-Tayr (The Conference of the Birds / The Parliament of the Fowls) — referenced by Mays in her opening

    Abu Sa'id (Abu Sa'id Abi'l-Khayr, 967–1049) — Persian Sufi mystic referenced by Omid: "Don't just write down stories — become someone others want to write down what you say"

    Shams of Tabriz — Rumi's spiritual companion; Fatemeh discusses how Shams urged Rumi to live his knowledge

    Jamiluddin Aali — Urdu poet whose work was recited in the live chat

    Historical & contextual references

    Sharif University of Technology, Tehran — described as "the MIT of the Middle East," bombed during the war

    Leston Palace, Tehran — UNESCO World Heritage Site, bombed and referenced as a war crime

    The Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988) — Fatemeh's personal reference point for civilian life under bombardment

    George Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984 — referenced by Omid in discussion of the corruption of language

    Next SAND Community Gathering

    Voices of the Land: Resistance & Solidarity with Lebanon — April 28th

    Contact SAND

    [email protected]

    Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member
  • Sounds of SAND

    The Great AI Unraveling: Tristan Harris

    23/04/2026 | 1h 29 mins.
    Recorded live at SAND Community Gathering (April 2026). Watch the full conversion on the SAND Website.

    SAND has launched a special series on Artificial Intelligence.

    To premiere this series, we spoke with tech ethicist Tristan Harris—co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology. In this conversation, we explored his warnings about the impending age of AI. According to Harris, the current trajectory isn’t just menacing the economy, but fundamentally rewiring human relationships, altering parenting and mental health, potentially accelerating climate collapse, and even threatening the very fabric of society. We inquired into ways to remain human in an era where machines can simulate empathy, displace our labor, and potentially outmaneuver us.



    Topics

    00:00 Welcome and Context

    00:42 Why This AI Talk

    01:32 Introducing Tristan Harris

    03:15 Setting the Basics

    04:10 From Narrow to New AI

    06:18 Rubber Band Reality Check

    08:31 Transformers and Scaling

    11:00 Infinity Upside and Risk

    14:49 Defining AGI and ASI

    18:18 Jagged Capabilities and Hype

    21:33 Singularity and Anti Human Drift

    23:26 Incentives Behind the Future

    27:29 The Intelligence Curse

    32:22 Devaluing Humans and Consensus

    37:56 Planetary Costs of Data Centers

    39:41 Why We Keep Building It

    42:46 Extinction Risk and Safety Math

    45:20 AI in War and Arms Race

    47:36 Leaders Unaware of Runaway Signs

    48:26 Leaders Fear AI Power

    49:02 Nuclear War Game Theory

    49:41 Infinite Games Mindset

    51:11 AI as Extractive Empire

    52:27 From Shadow to Action

    53:55 Building the Human Movement

    57:25 Four-Step Action Plan

    59:44 Grassroots Wins and Bans

    01:02:18 Nonprofit Progress and Lawsuits

    01:07:51 Talking to Teens Effectively

    01:10:05 Governance and Citizen Assemblies

    01:12:19 Spiritual Hopes vs Incentives

    01:15:12 Accelerationism and Choice

    01:18:22 Policy Maker Ten Minute Brief

    01:21:26 Countering Transhumanist Ideology

    01:23:45 Changing Culture and Incentives

    01:27:12 Final Reflections and Gratitude

    Resources

    Websites & Organizations

    Center for Humane Technology (Tristan Harris's website)

    The Human Movement

    AI Dialogue

    Prohuman AI Statement / Declaration

    Roadmap to How We Ensure AI is Serving Humanity

    Indigenous Perspectives on AI Course

    Metarelational AI

    Tech Workers Coalition

    Panel on AI + Embodiment Luma Invite

    Purge Palantir Action Links

    Purge Palantir Campaign Pledge



    Articles & Documents

    Alibaba Security Paper

    The Intelligence Curse by Luke Drago and Rudolf Laine

    The Shape of AI Jaggedness

    Harvard Gazette: Why are Communities pushing back on data centers

    The Palantir Payroll PDF

    New York Times Opinion: Yuval Harari AI ChatGPT

    Archive Article on Billionaires' Brains

    New York Times Opinion: Anthropic’s Restraint Is a Terrifying Warning Sign



    Videos & Films

    The Social Dilemma

    The AI Doc / How I Became an Apocalyptimist - Official Trailer

    Ghost in the Machine

    The Day After

    War Games

    Bernie vs. Claude (YouTube)

    Joanna Macy and the Great Turning

    How To Make AI Good For Humanity by Siliconversations (YouTube)



    Books & Textbooks

    Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach by Peter Norvig and Stuart J. Russell (PDF)

    States of Denial by Stanley Cohen (PDF)

    Finite and Infinite Games by James P. Carse (PDF)

    Hospicing Modernity by Vanessa Machado de Oliveira

    Outgrowing Modernity by Vanessa Machado de Oliveira

    The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt

    IntraConnected: MWe (Me + We) as the Integration of Self, Identity, and Belonging by Daniel J. Siegel, M.D.



    Empire of AI By Karen Hao

    More Everything Forever by Adam Becker

    Why Do We Tell Ourselves Scary Stories About AI? by Amanda Gefter





    Podcasts & Audio

    Your Undivided Attention - Tristan Harris, Aza Raskin, and Daniel Barcay

    The Emerald - Joshua Michael Schrei

    The Great Simplification - Nate Hagens

    Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member
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About Sounds of SAND
Sounds of SAND invites listeners into a contemplative journey through the infinite cycles of existence - from its raw beauty to its deepest mysteries, from its intricate complexity to its profound wonder. Through intimate conversations, thought-provoking interviews, poetic readings, and carefully curated music, we weave together ancient wisdom with lived experience, creating a tapestry of sound that honors the great questions of being
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