The Business of Fashion Podcast

• Can Kering Fix Gucci?

  Gucci has long been the shining star of Kering’s luxury portfolio, but the brand's recent struggles have exposed weaknesses in the conglomerate’s position. Gucci’s sales plummeted 24 percent in the fourth quarter of 2024, dragging Kering’s overall performance down by 12 percent. The shock departure of Creative Director Sabato De Sarno after less than two years only deepens the group’s instability.Luxury editor Robert Williams joins executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young to discuss how Gucci’s downturn is affecting Kering’s broader portfolio, why its attempt at a creative reset didn’t resonate, and what’s next for the group as it searches for a new vision.Key Insights: Gucci's downturn has been severe, with sales falling by almost a quarter in 2024. This dramatic slide highlights the challenge of reinvigorating the brand. “[Gucci] has had a few really big booms, but then also some pretty big busts afterward. That creates additional complications for the group and how much they're able to invest in acquiring new brands, in developing the brands they have. And honestly, to also just continue to exist,” says Williams.Gucci’s identity has become muddled as it leans too heavily on its heritage, potentially limiting its appeal. “Gucci can stand for a lot of things and I think that's where they got a bit confused. It's the biggest Italian luxury brand and maybe they started to think that it was more of a heritage house than it should be,” Williams explains. Williams outlines a protective strategy where the group is preemptively selling off valuable real estate. He cites the sale of luxury jewellery house Boucheron headquarters and flagship store on Place Vendôme, stating, "choosing to cash in on the fact that this building is worth a lot of money is a bit worrying that they feel the need to get that treasury right now." Gucci’s potential for a rapid rebound hinges on securing the right creative leadership to tell a compelling story of the brand and leveraging its extensive assets. “I think real potential for the rebound is there if they can get the right person in place just to tell a very convincing fashion story. It can go very high, very fast again,” Williams says. “They have a lot of real estate, they have a lot of stores in great locations and they have a whole supply chain behind them that's really like rooting for their comeback because it's the biggest client for so many suppliers in the Italian fashion system.”Additional Resources: Can Kering Bounce Back From Its ‘Annus Horribilis’? | BoF The Problems with Gucci and Dior | BoF Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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• Es Devlin and Ekow Eshun on Belonging, Otherness and Identity

  In an intimate conversation at BoF VOICES 2024, artist and stage designer Es Devlin and writer and cultural curator Ekow Eshun discuss the transformative potential of human connection. Emerging from a desire to confront her own biases, Devlin’s “Congregation” project invited 50 Londoners from immigrant backgrounds to be drawn and displayed inside St. Mary le Strand church in London. Eshun’s new book, “The Strangers”, likewise interrogates racial identity and belonging through the stories of five Black men spanning centuries and continents.“I'm not the same person at all,” says Devlin, reflecting on her experience. “I'm a bit more raw as a consequence of writing [The Strangers] because … you have to open yourself up to pain and fraughtness,” adds Eshun. Devlin and Eshun investigate how “otherness” shapes our sense of belonging and argue that true understanding requires a radical willingness to open ourselves to one another — and, in the process, rediscover parts of ourselves.Key Insights: For Devlin, bridging cultural divides begins with a fearless self-examination: “I wanted to encounter my own racism, my own bias, my own separation.” Considering how certain immigrants are welcomed while others are rejected, she admits, “If it's at work in my community, it must be at work in me. It must be work in my very person. Whether I think it is or not, I must encounter it.”Creative inquiry can be a path to self-discovery. “Almost any creative exercise in the end becomes about one trying to meet what’s inside you," Eshun explains. "It's easy enough to say, 'We're all one interconnected species.' But to do that, you have to put in some work along the way. That work is self-revelatory, but it's also a work of active imagination and broad empathy."For Eshun, genuine unity demands more than rhetoric—it requires a purposeful willingness to understand and embrace our differences. “It's easy enough to say, we're all one people, … but to do that, you have to do some work along the way. That work is a self revelatory work, but it's also a work of active imagination. It's also a work of broad empathy. It's also a presumption of intimacy or connection, which I think is sometimes hard to get to.”Additional Resources:BoF VOICES 2024: Global Culture and Creativity The BoF Podcast | Es Devlin on Collaboration, Creativity and Stage Craft Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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• Can Estée Lauder Win Over the Modern Beauty Consumer?

  Estée Lauder was long celebrated as a pioneer in prestige beauty, building a global empire on the strength of family legacy, innovative product lines, smart acquisitions and a high-touch in-store experience. However in recent years, the company has lost its wat on each of those strategies, leaving it poorly equipped to stay on top of rapidly shifting consumer tastes. In its latest earnings call, new CEO Stéphane de La Faverie candidly acknowledged that the company had “lost its agility,” and promised to quickly implement an ambitious modernisation plan. The Debrief explores how Estée Lauder’s legacy is now proving to be a burden, and how it can still overcome its challenges. Key Insights: Holding around 86% of the voting rights, Estée Lauder’s tight family control helped maintain a tight focus on prestige beauty, but has contributed to a risk-averse culture that caused the company to miss out on important trends. “A lot of their beliefs are around beauty being a prestige category and a prestige experience and that being the way to win,” says Morosini. “That message in the wider beauty consumer base has been diluted a little bit. People are much more open to shopping for products in different ways and from different kinds of founders. They didn't really let go of their values.” Estée Lauder also made a big bet on China, at one point deriving 25 percent of its sales from the market. However, when demand cooled post-COVID, it exposed weaknesses in its home market strategy. "Not only did the China business really, really sharply decline, but when the Chinese market took a really big hit, it exposed just how much they had neglected their home market of the US and just how much market share they had ceded without anyone really realising,” says Morosini.The company’s new CEO, Stéphane de La Faverie, is spearheading a major strategic overhaul with his "Beauty Reimagined" plan. This vision aims to reinvigorate the brand by streamlining the corporate structure, tripling the pace of innovation, and placing an obsessive focus on the consumer. "They've created more of a skincare brand cluster, a makeup brand cluster, and they've also really simplified the geographic way that they're dividing up the markets and who's overseeing them. I think that could lead to greater agility and better sort of more targeted marketing for each region," says Morosini.Estée Lauder’s model of fuelling growth through brand acquisitions is increasingly unsustainable in today’s volatile market. The company's ability to innovate and adapt has been hampered by heightened domestic competition and an unpredictable economic climate. "I think as time has gone on, it's just got harder and harder because the competition, especially in the US in their domestic market has really, really ramped up. And they don't seem able to accurately forecast what's gonna happen next,” says Morosini. “It's really hard to convince people that something that's been around for a long time is actually cool."Additional Resources:Estée Lauder Knows How to Cut Costs. Can It Also Rebuild Growth? A First-Day Agenda for Estée Lauder’s New CEO Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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• Why India Will Not Be The Next China for Luxury

  “Will India be the next China?” is a question that’s circulated throughout the fashion industry for years. Even as its population and economy both surge, India’s cultural tapestry and fragmented retail landscape set it apart from its northern neighbour.At BoF VOICES 2024, Ravi Thakran drew on his experiences pioneering luxury growth for Swatch in 1990s China and leadership of LVMH in Asia to share his unique insights on the many differences between the world’s two most populous countries, and why European luxury brands have not yet managed to really crack the Indian market.“India is now across China and growing faster. But when it comes to the luxury market — talk of any brand, be it Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Louis Vuitton, Cartier — India is less than 1%,” says Thakran. “India's stupendous growth is right in front of us, but the bulk of that growth is led by a very young population with a very low per capita income. So if you are an aspirational player, go to India today. This will be your biggest play going forward. In luxury, you still have to work.”Thakran unpacks the dynamics of economic growth in India, explains why its path won’t mirror China’s, and shares insights on how to succeed in one of the world’s most complex yet promising markets.Key Insights: From garments to accessories, Asia has scaled production to supply most of the global market. Simultaneously, it’s also the top consumer region for many categories, making Asia pivotal in both supply and demand equations. Despite this, its share of value in these categories remains low: “Asia is now the largest market of the world and across [garments, accessories and watches], more than 50%. … How come its share of value in these categories is so low?” queries Thakran. “Value resides in brands. And where do these brands live? The brands today for these categories are still in Europe and the USA.” While India’s market is huge, it is fragmented and complex. Challenges for fashion brands include high import duties, limited retail infrastructure and a deeply rooted tradition of local attire. Western brands need to adapt to India’s cultural context if they hope to gain traction. “LVMH is not a luxury enough for India. … Indian luxury will always remain very Indian. Unless you Indianise, you're unlikely to crack that market,” says Thakran. Drawing on teachings from Buddah and Gandhi, Ravi underscores that Asia’s rising wealth need not translate into mindless consumption. Gandhi’s simple lifestyle and the Buddha’s teachings on desires offer a philosophical counterbalance that resonates in today’s sustainability-conscious world. “While we are trying to make India adapt to the West, I think there is a message for the West to adopt from India," says Thakran.Additional Resources:BoF VOICES 2024: Fashion’s Next Moves Where Fashion Is Finding Growth in Asia as China Stalls | BoF Luxury’s China Priorities in the Year of the Snake | BoF Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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• Fashion’s M&A Market is Heating Up

  After a prolonged slowdown, fashion’s M&A market is springing back to life. A combination of falling interest rates, shifting investor sentiment and optimism around economic policy has fuelled a wave of early 2025 deals. Within the first few weeks of the year, brands like True Religion and Kapital were acquired by private equity firms and holding companies, signalling renewed confidence in fashion investments.However, not all acquisitions are about aggressive growth. Some buyers specialise in “managed decline,” acquiring struggling brands to extend their lifespan through licensing or cost-cutting. Others, including private equity firms and strategic buyers, see opportunities to scale promising brands by injecting capital and expertise.“The key for a lot of these companies in finding buyers is proving that their brands are still worth it and can weather these economic cycles and lulls in the market,” shared e-commerce correspondent Malique Morris. Executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young sat down with Morris to break down the latest deals, the brands poised for sale, and what it all means for fashion in 2025 and beyond.Key Insights: A number of converging factors are driving a new wave of fashion mergers and acquisitions in 2025. Falling interest rates, Trump’s re-election driving investor optimism, and shifting regulations have all played a part in fuelling new acquisitions. “Retailers reported strong holiday sales in 2024, and even though much of that was driven by discounting, it signalled that consumers were still spending,” says Morris. “That kind of activity gives investors more confidence in backing fashion businesses.”Buyers are looking for brands with strong customer loyalty, an engaged audience, and clear growth potential that can weather the ebb and flow of the market. Brands need “good stewards to help them find the best resources to expand without hurting their legacy, whether that be money, retail networks, or supplier relationships,” explains Morris. “It's important to have the resources you need to maintain relevance and compete for consumer attention.”Beauty remains a hotbed for M&A activity. “Unlike fashion, beauty hasn’t faced the same investor hesitancy,” says Morris. “Brands like Merit, Westman Atelier, and Makeup by Mario are seen as prime acquisition targets, while Rare Beauty could be the defining beauty deal of the decade.”Overall, buyers are prioritising brands with strong customer loyalty and cultural relevance. “They're seeking brands with ample customer loyalty and a passionate consumer base that will keep their names in the public consciousness, irrespective of what recent sales growth will look like,” says Morris. He adds, “The thing that is top of mind is, what is the value of your brand? That’s an honest conversation that I’m not sure all companies have with themselves, let alone with buyers.”Additional Resources:What’s Behind the 2025 M&A Wave | BoF Fashion’s Most Anticipated M&A Hot Spots in 2025 | BoF Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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