The Fourth Curtain

• Journey's Jenova Chen and the Art of the Positive Game

  This week's guest is Jenova Chen, creator of Journey, Sky: Children of the Light and other games. A BAFTA winner, he has strong opinions about morality in games and the value of positivity. We discuss the unique way he starts games, GDC's value and being the opposite of GTA - this week![00:00:00] Music as the Highest Resolution Emotional MediumJenova Chen explains why he believes music is the most powerful emotional communication tool, comparing it to pixel art and poetry.[00:08:00] The Journey of thatgamecompany & Raising $160MJenova shares how Thatgamecompany evolved from a student project to a studio that raised $160 million in venture capital.[00:14:00] Growing Up in Shanghai & Discovering GamingJenova reflects on his childhood in China, his parents' skepticism of video games, and how he discovered his passion for interactive media.[00:28:00] Pitching a Game at USC & The Origins of thatgamecompanyJenova recalls how he pitched a student game to secure funding, which eventually led to the founding of thatgamecompany.[00:32:00] Creating Games as Art & The Success of CloudThe unexpected viral success of Cloud and how it convinced Jenova that video games could be a respected artistic medium.[00:41:00] How Jenova Chen Designs Games: Starting with EmotionJenova describes his creative process, starting with imagery and music to establish the emotional tone before designing mechanics.[00:51:00] Comedy & Romance in Games: A Missed OpportunityJenova discusses how certain film genres—like romantic comedies—are underrepresented in gaming and how they could become successful.[00:58:00] Designing the Emotional Journey in JourneyHow Journey’s climactic moment was carefully crafted by contrasting moments of struggle with a powerful sense of freedom.Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron MarroquinFind us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfeVideos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtainFollow us on twitter: @fourthcurtainEdited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen HensleyVideo Editor: Sarkis GrigorianProducer: Shanglan (May) LiArt: Paul RusselCommunity Manager: Doug ZartmanFeaturing Liberation by 505

  --------  

  1:16:39
• Alex Irvine's Storytelling Secrets from Marvel Rivals and Beyond!

  Dive into the compelling world of storytelling with acclaimed author Alex Irvine, known for his immersive contributions to Marvel games, graphic novels, and groundbreaking Alternate Reality Games (ARGs) like I Love Bees. In this episode, Alex shares his insights on creativity, the delicate balance between talent, persistence, and luck, and the intricate art of narrative design across various media formats. From discussing the unique challenges of writing for expansive universes like Marvel's multiverse to recalling his first forays into writing, Alex reveals the true secret ingredient to success. Packed with engaging anecdotes and wisdom, this conversation will captivate aspiring creators, gamers, and narrative enthusiasts alike.Episode Highlights:[00:00] Alex Irvine shares essential advice on becoming a successful writer: "Talent, persistence, luck—pick two."[09:00] Discussing how storytelling integrates with gameplay mechanics, using Marvel Rivals as a case study.[13:00] Behind-the-scenes insight into early Marvel game universe-building attempts, and how ambitious projects like a Marvel gaming universe unfold.[14:00] Crafting "time-stream entanglement" as a narrative device for multiverse stories in Marvel Rivals.[22:00] Childhood inspiration from playing Dungeons & Dragons, storytelling roots, and writing early poetry.[35:00] Persistence in publishing his first novel, A Scattering of Jades, after years of setbacks.[45:00] The exhilarating chaos of writing ARG puzzles and player reactions for I Love Bees.[56:00] Alex reflects on the collaborative process of writing comics and the delicate balance between writer and artist.Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron MarroquinFind us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfeVideos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtainFollow us on twitter: @fourthcurtainEdited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen HensleyVideo Editor: Sarkis GrigorianProducer: Shanglan (May) LiArt: Paul RusselCommunity Manager: Doug ZartmanFeaturing Liberation by 505

  --------  

  1:10:52
• Hope for the Future with Halo's Joe Staten

  This week's guest is Halo and Destiny's Joe Staten. Beginning as a farmhand, he went on to lead teams in the Halo franchise, be on the core team for Destiny, write a NYT bestselling novel and work with the great Peter Jackson. Now looking for his next role, we discuss how Bungie was like a family business, the most important mysteries and creativity and risk - this week!Episode Highlights – Joseph Staten on The Fourth Curtain Podcast🎙️ Guest: Joseph Staten – Writer, Cinematics Director, Creative Director, NYT Bestselling Author, Voice Actor, and former Halo/Destiny dev.07:50 – Introduction – Alex and Aaron welcome Joseph Staten and reminisce about their early days working together.09:05 – Joseph’s Bungie Origins – How Alex took a chance on Joe and changed his career trajectory.10:45 – From Theater to Game Development – Joe’s academic path from Northwestern University and how it shaped his approach to storytelling.14:15 – Wine, Farm Work, and Video Games – How working at a family vineyard led to playing Myth and ultimately a job interview at Bungie.15:22 – The Wild Flight to Bungie – Joe’s harrowing experience on ATA Airlines en route to his Bungie interview.18:36 – Lessons from a Non-Traditional Career Path – Why diverse backgrounds create stronger game developers.21:30 – The Importance of Curiosity and Hustle – How a self-starter mindset helped Joe navigate the game industry.28:34 – The Journey to Creative Director – How Joe transitioned from Bungie’s publishing team to leading game development.33:24 – Hard Lessons in Leadership – Learning to communicate effectively and navigate failure as a team leader.37:58 – Building Trust in Game Development – Why trust is the foundation of every successful project.40:06 – Playing Halo as a Fan – Joe’s experience playing Halo games he didn’t work on, starting with Halo: Reach.46:03 – ODST’s Development Challenges – How Joe and Paul Bertone led a small team to ship Halo 3: ODST under intense constraints.50:40 – Difficult Decisions in Game Development – The toughest calls made during ODST and Halo Infinite.52:30 – The Scale of Halo Infinite – Managing 800+ developers and the challenges of finishing a large-scale game.56:22 – Why Aren’t There More Marines? – A small but impactful design decision in Halo Infinite.58:26 – The Future of AAA Games – Joe’s thoughts on the shifting industry landscape and what’s next for game dev.1:05:19 – Iteration is Key to Success – Why persistence and iteration define the best games.1:06:41 – Writing Halo: Contact Harvest – The experience of writing a New York Times bestseller while develThank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron MarroquinFind us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfeVideos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtainFollow us on twitter: @fourthcurtainEdited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen HensleyVideo Editor: Sarkis GrigorianProducer: Shanglan (May) LiArt: Paul RusselCommunity Manager: Doug ZartmanFeaturing Liberation by 505

  --------  

  1:22:53
• Games Workshop's Ian Livingstone, Fantasy Knight in Real Life

  This week's guest is a founder of Games Workshop, publisher of White Dwarf magazine, creator of the Fighting Fantasy Books and Executive Chair of Eidos Interactive Sir Ian Livingstone. This Knight of the British Empire started a business while living in a van, prevailed through a Satanic panic about his Fighting books, saw the promise of a certain Tomb Raider and birthed a mass media entertainment phenomenon. Now using games for education, we talk getting bonkers exclusives, the 3 G's of gamedev and more - this week!🎙️ The Fourth Curtain – S3 Ep01: Sir Ian Livingstone 🎲[00:00:00] – Living in a Van to Build a Games Empire 🚐Ian shares how he and his co-founder lived in a van outside a squash club while starting Games Workshop.[00:08:00] – GenCon, Early Game Distribution & Meeting Gygax 🎲Traveling to GenCon, discovering Dungeons & Dragons, and securing the European distribution rights for TSR.[00:18:00] – Building Games Workshop & Warhammer’s Rise 🏰The journey from selling board games to launching Warhammer and revolutionizing tabletop gaming.[00:26:00] – Fighting Fantasy & Interactive Storytelling 📖How Fighting Fantasy books became a global phenomenon and pioneered branching narratives in gaming.[00:38:00] – Eidos & The Birth of Tomb Raider 🎮The story behind discovering Tomb Raider during due diligence and its meteoric rise in gaming and pop culture.[00:49:00] – The Business of Games & Investing in Innovation 💰Ian’s philosophy on game design, the importance of IP ownership, and why gameplay always comes first.[01:04:00] – Where the Games Industry is Heading 🚀Thoughts on the evolution of games, emerging technologies, and the future of innovation in gaming.[01:11:00] – Closing Thoughts & A Look Ahead 🔮Ian shares insights on the importance of creativity, the future of interactive media, and what’s next for him.Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron MarroquinFind us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfeVideos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtainFollow us on twitter: @fourthcurtainEdited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen HensleyVideo Editor: Sarkis GrigorianProducer: Shanglan (May) LiArt: Paul RusselCommunity Manager: Doug ZartmanFeaturing Liberation by 505

  --------  

  1:26:44
• Best of 2024

  In this week's episode we recap some of the best moments from Season 2, with John Romero on hits and misses, how Peter Molyneux makes a game, Ed Fries on Xbox's Valentines Day massacre, Warren Spector on how playstyle is everything and much more! 🎮 The Fourth Curtain – S2 Best Of Highlights[00:00:00] – Season 2 Recap & Patreon Launch 🎉Alex and Aaron reflect on Season 2, announce the new Patreon, and tease upcoming guests.[00:08:00] – John Romero’s First Game 👾John shares how he programmed his first game on a mainframe in 1979 and discovered Colossal Cave Adventure.[00:26:00] – Mike Wilson & The Wild West of Publishing 🤠Mike tells stories from GT Interactive, including publishing DOOM and the infamous Fabio Screensaver.[00:38:00] – Game Delays & Business Realities ⏳Industry veterans discuss the tough decisions behind delaying games and the shift from retail to digital.[00:49:00] – Mitch Lasky on Venture Capital & Gaming 💰Mitch talks about investing in Instagram, Twitter, Uber, Snapchat, Riot Games, and Discord.[01:04:00] – The Xbox Origin Story – The Valentine's Day Massacre 🎮Ed Fries recounts the high-stakes meeting where Microsoft approved the original Xbox.[01:27:00] – Jesse Schell Predicts AI in Games 🤖Jesse discusses AI-driven NPCs, procedural storytelling, and the future of interactive experiences.[01:32:00] – AI’s Impact on Game Development & Publishing ⚙️Frank Gibeau and others explore AI’s role in monetization, engagement, and player behavior.[01:43:00] – Season 3 Tease & Farewell 🎭A sneak peek at upcoming guests, including Sir Ian Livingstone, and an invitation to join the Patreon.Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron MarroquinFind us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfeVideos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtainFollow us on twitter: @fourthcurtainEdited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen HensleyVideo Editor: Sarkis GrigorianProducer: Shanglan (May) LiArt: Paul RusselCommunity Manager: Doug ZartmanFeaturing Liberation by 505

  --------  

  1:44:49

More Leisure podcasts

Trending Leisure podcasts

About The Fourth Curtain