Climate Unf*cked

Dr. Renée Lertzman is a climate psychologist who's worked with the likes of Google, Transport for London, the White House,and WWF - and her TED Talk has been viewed over 2 million times. She trains changemakers, organisations, and businesses around the world to stop using outdated models of human behaviour and start applying what we actually know about psychology to create real, lasting change.

Most of us are working from an old, outdated understanding of humans as rational, logical beings - and it's killing our effectiveness. Her work is about ditching the "yell, tell, and sell" approach and learning how to create the relational conditions where people can access the care they already have.

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This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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In this episode, we dive into:

Why you can't make anyone care about climate - and the reframe that actually works: people already care, but something's getting in the way of that care

The three things blocking people from acting on climate: feeling powerless, perceived conflicts with identity/heritage, and lack of safety to express vulnerability

"Yell, tell, and sell" - the three dominant (and failing) approaches to climate communication: moralising and scaring people, over-educating with facts, and toxic positivity cheerleading

Why motivational interviewing works: asking "what's your experience with flying?" instead of "don't you realise how bad flying is for the planet?"

The Transport for London cycling campaign that showed a woman riding through a park with flowers - and why honest, gritty messaging (like showing someone drenched and miserable) would actually work better

How Renée trained message researchers to talk with conservative Republican climate skeptics using active listening - and by the end of a two-minute script, they were saying "yeah, let's do something about climate"

Why that breakthrough research can't get traction - and Renée's frustration that the climate world won't listen to what actually works

The question everyone needs to interrogate: what is your theory of change? (Inspiration? Storytelling? Market transformation? Better research? Processing feelings? The arts?)

Why charged information that evokes disgust, shame, blame, or guilt actually impairs our prefrontal cortex - we literally can't process the information we're being given

The five guiding principles for effective changemaking: attune, reveal, convene, equip, and sustain

Why Renée draws the line at having conversations with people who don't recognize her humanity (like Trump) - but why the "messy middle" of people feeling fearful and threatened is where our energy needs to go

Her upcoming book The Changemaker Code - a playbook for anyone who cares deeply about the world and wants to be more effective while protecting their own resilience and well-being

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Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

Timestamps

00:00 Psychology of Climate Communication

01:58 How do I make people care reframe

06:31 Creating the conditions for change

11:23 The Air Travel Pilot Project

14:05 Transport for London Cycling example

19:45 Just Stop Oil and the Spectrum of Climate Action

23:14 3 Ineffective Approaches

25:51 Theories of Change: What Really Drives Human Behaviour

29:42 Republican Climate Skeptics Project: Listening Works

40:16 What about Trump?

45:58 Renée’s upcoming book

48:26 The Neuroscience of Change: Why Fear Backfires

50:28 Final Bits: Being Seen and Heard

Mark Shayler has spent 35 years working in sustainability before it was cool - and he's saved his clients over $200 million while doing it. He's an environmental consultant, innovation specialist, and straight-talking force of nature who works with everyone from Coca-Cola to Unilever to tiny manufacturing businesses in Bradford. He believes that, whilst business created most of the world's problems, it's also the thing that can fix them.

Mark doesn't do sandals-and-placards environmentalism. He meets companies where they are, speaks the language of profit and loss, and isn't afraid to work with the "bad guys" if it means shifting their trajectory by even half a degree. This is sustainability from the inside out - messy, pragmatic, and unapologetically commercial.

In this episode, we dive into:

Why "being green" has become a way of beating people down instead of democratising climate action - and how judgment creates division, not progress

The evolution of corporate sustainability requests: from "keep me out of prison" to "keep me lean" to "help me care more" to today's "help me stay relevant and attract talent"

Why Mark would work with Shein - and exactly what he'd change (regenerative cotton, circular polyester, legitimate leasing instead of borrowing-with-tags-on)

The project-level litmus test: if you can't put the company name on your intro slide without embarrassment, don't take the work

Why quarterly reporting and employer-tied healthcare in America are the biggest brakes on innovation and brave climate action

The "highways department conundrum" - we'll need to see it's too late before we do something about it ("no one's died yet, do you want me to volunteer my 93-year-old nan?")

How consumption became an anti-depressant and why we're no happier buying our 10th pair of jeans than our first

The fertility of "rapid deposition" - why the last third of life should be about giving knowledge away, not hoarding it (and why Mark's plan is: don't retire, don't die)

Why populism and the rolling back of the green agenda isn't about sustainability at all - it's about trust, science, and people being left behind economically

The rise of "green hushing" and why we need to reclaim the narrative - ecology and economy come from the same Greek word meaning "home"

Finding the rebels and renegades inside organisations - the "weird kids" who take risks and want excitement, not corporate uniformity

Why materiality beats moral purity, why movement is a message, and why "for the many, not the few - and you are the many" is the billboard Mark would put up everywhere

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This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

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Find Mark at: https://www.markshayler.com/

And his work at: https://www.thisisape.co.uk/

Timestamps:

00:00 How Mark Explains His Work

03:40 The Problem with Green Washing vs Green Hushing

05:39 Working With "Bad" Companies Like Coca-Cola

08:25 How Mark Judges Which Projects to Take

11:53 Projects He's Said No To

13:45 The Tension Between Good People and Bad Systems

16:30 The Shein Hypothetical

21:37 When Companies Change Beyond Recognition

23:07 How Mark Has Saved Clients $200 Million

26:00 What Green People Get Wrong About Communication

29:15 Why American Healthcare Traps Innovation

32:23 Finding the Rebels Inside Organisations

36:48 Imagination vs Constraint in Sustainability

40:35 The Gentle Stick and Massive Carrot Approach

42:28 Why You Shouldn't Retire

46:03 “Mark, can you help me to…”

49:06 The Threat of Populism to Climate Action

52:03 What Comes After "Mark, Can You Help Me?"

54:47 Will We Roll Back the Green Agenda?

58:00 Patriots vs Jingoists

59:20 If Mark Had a Global Billboard

1:01:15 Why Mark Does What He Does

Professor Mike Berners-Lee is the internationally renowned bestselling author of How Bad Are Bananas?, The Burning Question (co-authored with Duncan Clark), There Is No Planet B, and most recently A Climate of Truth. He's a professor at Lancaster University and works on carbon footprinting through his company Small World Consulting, which has worked with companies like BT, Microsoft, and all 15 UK national parks. A couple of weeks ago, Mike chaired the National Emergency Briefing in Westminster Hall to hundreds of political, business, faith, culture and media leaders.

In this episode, we dive into:

Why the "energy transition" is actually an "energy addition" - we've grown renewable energy by 2.5x since the first COP, but fossil fuel use has grown 60% in the same period

The three things actually needed for energy transition: grow renewables, constrain fossil fuel supply through carbon pricing, AND reduce total global energy demand

Why individual carbon footprints don't directly cut global emissions (it's like squeezing a balloon - it pops out elsewhere) - but why they still matter for creating ripple effects and cultural change

The psychology of climate denial - from grief transition curves to "disavowal" (when you understand the evidence but live as if you don't) - and how to move past protective mechanisms

Why carbon accounting is broken - most companies use random system boundaries that make numbers incomparable, and why we need to count everything in supply chains once and once only

The dishonesty crisis: how a "broken trinity" of politics, media and business is dragging each other down instead of raising the game - and why we need a "me too moment" for political deceit

Media ownership matters - who owns what you read, their track record, and how subtle influence shapes thinking over time (including a taxonomy of deceit techniques)

The week Mike spent investivating Bjorn Lomborg's book The Skeptical Environmentalist that exposed hundreds of errors and scientific dishonesty

Bill Gates has "gone bonkers" on climate - from claiming to invent a decades-old formula to missing tipping points entirely, plus his recent memo saying climate isn't the most pressing issue

The journey from How Bad Are Bananas? (individual action) to A Climate of Truth (systemic change) - and why we need humanity to undergo "urgent evolution" to become Anthropocene-fit

Why narrative is everything right now - this is NOT the time to go quiet on climate action, it's time to stand up, be brave, and talk even louder

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This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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Find Mike’s latest book A Climate of Truth

Sign the letter for a National Emergency Briefing broadcast: https://www.nebriefing.org/open-letter-keir

Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

00:00 Understanding the Green Spectrum
03:08 Psychological Barriers to Climate Action
05:48 The Shift from Individual to Systemic Change
08:57 The Journey of Climate Literature
11:54 The Need for Economic and Political Reform
14:53 Energy Transition: Myths and Realities
17:45 The Role of Technology in Climate Solutions
21:07 The Influence of Family and Upbringing
23:49 The Importance of Honesty in Climate Discourse
33:42 Media Ownership and Its Influence
36:00 Political Nuance and Environmental Discourse
39:53 Personal Responsibility vs. Systemic Change
43:01 The Ripple Effect of Individual Actions
46:48 The Importance of Narrative in Climate Action
49:30 Challenging Misleading Environmental Narratives
56:14 Psychological Barriers to Climate Action
01:01:40 The Call for Courageous Conversations

Sam Zindel is Managing Director at digital marketing agency Propellernet and founder of GEN R. Gen R is an environmental movement that uses music and art to support nature. He's created a jukebox that plants trees for every song played - and it spent the summer with Fatboy Slim.

Sam's mission is to drag environmentalism out of the culture wars and root it back into popular culture where it belongs. No sandals required. No technical jargon. Just fun, accessible climate action that meets people where they already are - at gigs, festivals, and in the pub.

In this episode, we dive into:

Why 80% of people care about the environment but the climate movement is still stuck in an echo chamber - and how to fix it

The story behind the 1959 vinyl jukebox that plants trees, displays holographic bees, and ended up at Fat Boy Slim's Brighton cafe after debuting at Glastonbury

Why scaring people with sea level rise or confusing them with "scope 1 emissions" are terrible entry points to climate action

The school play moment that changed everything - when an 8-year-old read a story about a hummingbird and called out the adults in the room

How Propellornet went from measuring a 91-ton carbon footprint to funding a million trees in three years (and why offsetting for £1,000 felt "appalling")

The three core principles of Gen R: individual decisions without judgment, collective responsibility, and accepting imperfect progress

Why "movement is a message" - from reusable cup schemes at festivals to train travel included in football tickets

The power of imagination over climate denial - even if you don't believe in global warming, who wouldn't want cleaner air at the school drop-off?

Why nature is a superpower in climate storytelling and how the Wildling app makes it accessible to everyone (not just National Trust members)

Book recommendations: How Bad Are Bananas? by Mike Berners-Lee, From What Is to What If by Rob Hopkins, and Net Positive by Paul Polman

Thank you to Ecologi for supporting the podcast. They're the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out ‪@Ecologi_hq‬ at https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

Follow the jukebox journey at @gen_r_jukebox on Instagram

Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

00:00 The Jukebox that Fatboy Slim hosted

07:40 Engaging Popular Culture for Environmental Change

13:28 Behavior Change Through Storytelling

16:38 Collective vs. Individual Action in Climate Solutions

22:31 Personal Responsibility and Grassroots Action

28:43 Inspiring Hope and Fun in Environmentalism

31:24 The Hummingbird Story that changed Sam’s life

43:09 Awakening to Environmental Responsibility

51:39 Measuring and Reducing Carbon Footprint

58:00 Investing in Nature and Community

01:02:11 The Role of Business in Sustainability

01:09:39 Long-Term Change vs. Short-Term Solutions

Email your MP to get them to attend! Visit https://www.nebriefing.org/

Send them their personalised video invite (already made): https://docs.google.com/document/d/18BWde8rCy2pBFL_Eid-rEJ6XIQqSUEqq_lnj9TZaapI/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.r7al6r613w88

Nick Oldridge is on a mission to get all 650 UK MPs into Westminster Central Hall for the National Emergency Briefing - a crucial wake-up call about the climate crisis happening in just 23 days from recording. As the co-founder of Climate Science Breakthrough, which created viral videos featuring comedians like Joe Brand and Jonathan Pie translating climate science, Nick knows how to break through the noise.

In this episode, we dive into:

Why the UK's claimed 50% emissions reduction is "clever accounting" that doesn't include major sources like Drax power station, aviation, or imported goods.

The eight expert speakers who'll deliver 10-minute TED-style talks covering everything from food security to NHS collapse to national security threats.

How comedy became the unexpected vehicle for climate communication - and why Joe Brand's appearance on Good Morning Britain marked a turning point

The shocking perception gap: people think net zero will cost 28% of GDP when it's actually just 0.2% - or £1.30 per person per week.

Why shifting to a plant-rich diet could free up land the size of Scotland and why the economic benefits of reaching net zero would save the UK £37 billion annually

Nick's "one-way gate" moment with climate scientist Kevin Anderson that transformed him from observer to activist, leading him to invest his children's inheritance into climate action

The power of ending on positive solutions, from renewable energy to nature recovery, and why "movement is a message"

This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

Find out more about the National Emergency Briefing at: https://www.nebriefing.org/

Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/