Climate Unf*cked

Check out the UK’s most trusted climate action platform, Ecologi at: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

Frank Holleman is the founder of Fork Ranger, an app and movement that's helping 150,000+ people to eat more sustainably. He's spent six years proving that the most effective climate action isn't perfection, it's making sustainable eating so ridiculously easy that it slips under people's resistance radar. His philosophy is simple: we don't need a few perfect environmentalists, we need millions of people taking imperfect action.

This conversation unpacks why food is responsible for one third of global emissions, why beef is five times worse than chicken, and why replacing beef with literally anything else is the single easiest climate win most people aren't taking. We also talk about the psychology of behaviour change, why going from "never again" to "90% less" makes all the difference, and how eating seasonally became Fork Ranger's most popular product even though it only reduces 2% of food emissions.

Frank also shares the framework that drives his entire approach: make the invitation to change small enough that it never triggers fight or flight, and why level three of sustainable eating isn't about cutting dairy, it's about inviting two friends to start level one.

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In this episode, we dive into:

Why food causes one third of all global greenhouse gas emissions, and over half of that comes from meat (even though it contributes only 17% of calories but uses 83% of agricultural land)

The carbon footprint gap: beef is five times worse than chicken, which means swapping beef for chicken is a bigger climate win than most people realize (and you don't even have to go vegetarian)

Why there IS a role for animals in a sustainable food system, but only on marginal lands in small amounts, which means meat becomes a luxury, not a weekly staple

The two hardest parts of eating sustainably: the unknown and behavior change itself (finding new recipes, imagining what it tastes like without meat), and then the social pressure of being the only one who cares at the dinner table

Fork Ranger's three levels: Level 1 is replace beef with chicken or pork (not even vegetarian, just different meat). Level 2 is reduce food waste (one third of all food is wasted, mostly at home, and it's usually because we're too picky). Level 3 is invite two friends to start Level 1 and 2, because we don't need perfect environmentalists, we need millions taking action

Why food waste is the second level, not cutting dairy: it's a huge environmental problem, and solving it reinforces the mindset that food is valuable, not a cheap commodity we can afford to throw away

The 25% tipping point: if a quarter of people in a group do something against the norm, the rest become so uncertain about what's normal that they follow along and it suddenly flips (like fist bumps vs handshakes)

Book recommendations: Kaizen: One Small Step to Change Your Life, Project Drawdown, Change: How to Make Big Things Happen, and You Are What You Love

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This podcast is sponsored by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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Find Fork Ranger at: https://forkranger.com

Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

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00:00 Why is eating sustainably hard?
06:41 Why we need to talk about meat

10:52 Why You Don't Have To Go Vegan
12:57 Food Causes 1/3 Of All Climate Change

14:32 The Important Truth For Meat Lovers

21:13 The Psychology Of Behaviour Change

26:49 The 3-Level System For Eating Sustainably

30:39 Why food waste is a huge problem

35:44 Is your app actually changing behaviour?

40:01 The 25% Tipping Point That Could Change Everything
43:28 Influential Books and Resources

47:51 Shopping Malls, Consumerism & Why Eating Is Political
52:04 Unexpected impact of eating seasonally
57:26 Individual Choices vs. Systemic Change

Check out Ecologi at https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth.

Juliet Davenport founded Good Energy and spent 20 years proving that a distributed renewable energy business could actually work driven by the philosophy that ordinary people, not governments or corporations, should drive the energy transition.

This conversation goes deep into the parts of the energy debate that almost nobody explains clearly — why your energy bills are high, who's actually responsible for fixing the grid, and whether lower carbon and lower costs can genuinely happen at the same time.

We talk about why wind and solar were designed to maximise output rather than serve customers, how the national grid went from managing 30 power stations to millions of generators overnight, and the uncomfortable truth about why fossil fuel lobbying works as well as it does.

Juliet also shares the framework that shaped her entire approach to climate action — and why she thinks getting angry at bad actors is one of the least effective things you can do.

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This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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In this episode, we dive into:

Why energy conversations should be about people, not power stations - and how we've spent decades designing renewables to maximise output instead of delivering what consumers actually need

The engineering mistake that's costing us billions: wind turbines designed for maximum megawatt hours instead of smooth, predictable output that matches when people use power

How the UK energy system went from managing 30 fossil fuel generators to millions of renewable sources - and why the data and software still aren't good enough to handle it

Marginal pricing explained: why gas sometimes sets the energy price (and sometimes doesn't) - and why in summer we actually get too much renewable power, causing prices to go negative

The price cap paradox: why the policy that protected consumers for 15 years might now be keeping energy bills higher than they need to be (because everyone buys power at the same time)

Why decoupling energy prices from gas isn't the answer - it'll happen naturally as renewables grow, and there are bigger regulatory fixes that would cut bills faster

The lobbying reality: fossil fuel companies will fight to protect their business model until they can't - so Juliet built Good Energy to prove a zero-carbon business could work commercially, not as a charity

Why AI energy use is like "using precision laser tooling to cut bread" - we need quantum computing for low-accuracy tasks and smarter algorithms, not powering everything with coal-fired data centers

The three forces needed for systemic change: activism (to open conversations), policy (to set direction), and business (to deliver) - and why anger between bad actors and activists can actually get stuck in a loop that prevents progress

What Juliet would do with a billion pounds: grid reinforcement, European interconnectors, automatic meter readers in every UK home (not overcomplicated smart meters), an innovation fund for energy efficiency, and a democracy campaign so people understand energy beyond media filters

Why households should run like mini power stations - using energy at the right time of day automatically, without expecting consumers to think about it

The Finnish town heated entirely by waste heat from a data centre - and why tech companies aren't being smart enough about secondary energy use

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Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

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00:00 Energy Should Be About People, Not Power Stations

04:30 Why Renewables Were Designed Wrong From the Start

08:30 The 2030 Clean Power Plan & Fixing Government Contracts

12:00 Why the National Grid Is Struggling to Keep Up

16:30 Can We Have Lower Bills AND Lower Carbon?

20:30 How Energy Prices Are Actually Decided

27:00 Are Fossil Fuel Companies Actively Blocking Change?

33:00 Why Getting Angry at Bad Actors Doesn't Work

40:30 Why Activism, Policy & Business Are The Levers of Change

48:30 AI's Energy Problem & Why Big Tech Isn't Being Smart

56:00 Where Juliet Would Spend £1M, £1B & £100B

1:03:30 The Question Nobody Asks Her

1:06:30 How Do We Accelerate the UK's Clean Energy Transition?

Kate Williams is CEO of 1% for the Planet, the global movement founded by Patagonia's Yvon Chouinard that's certified over $820 million in environmental giving - and they're on track to hit their first billion. She's spent the last 11 years scaling a model that proves capitalism can work differently: 1% of revenue (not profit) goes to vetted environmental nonprofits, no matter what kind of year you've had.

It means rent for the planet (and its financial discipline) is baked into the P&L. And it's proof that simple actions, done repeatedly, in community, at scale, can aggregate to billions of dollars in impact - without putting a ceiling on what companies can do beyond that.

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This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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In this episode, we dive into:

→ What trends is she seeing in the market?

→ How is 1% for the Planet different from Patagonia?

→ Why should nonprofits exist separate from the market?

→ What has Kate learned from Yvon? (Patagonia’s founder)

→ Why did the pandemic cause a huge increase in sign-ups?

→ How is 1% using capitalism’s mechanisms for good?

→ What are non-profit’s role in climate progress?

→ Would Kate pick up a call from ExxonMobil?

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Find out more about 1% for the Planet at: https://www.onepercentfortheplanet.org/

Connect with Kate Williams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katewilliams87/

Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

Timestamps

00:00 Non profit’s role in climate

05:42 What is 1% for the Planet?

11:28 Why 1% of Revenue, Not Profit?

18:35 Vetting Nonprofits and Impact Areas

23:47 Dollar-Per-Impact vs Systemic Change

27:29 How can we do capitalism differently?

29:51 How is 1% like a tax?

33:55 Why 1% on revenue, not profit?

40:38 How has Kate grown 1%?

44:37 Why did sign-ups increase in covid?

49:33 What has Kate learned from Yvon (Patagonia founder?)

55:28 Does the ‘green’ movement exclude people?

01:09:45 Being an "N of Many" vs Patagonia's "N of One"

01:06:33 Trends Kate is seeing

01:14:19 “What do you wish more people would ask you?”

01:19:47 “What are you fed up of being asked?”

01:22:00 How to learn more about 1%?

Dr. Renée Lertzman is a climate psychologist who's worked with the likes of Google, Transport for London, the White House,and WWF - and her TED Talk has been viewed over 2 million times. She trains changemakers, organisations, and businesses around the world to stop using outdated models of human behaviour and start applying what we actually know about psychology to create real, lasting change.

Most of us are working from an old, outdated understanding of humans as rational, logical beings - and it's killing our effectiveness. Her work is about ditching the "yell, tell, and sell" approach and learning how to create the relational conditions where people can access the care they already have.

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This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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In this episode, we dive into:

Why you can't make anyone care about climate - and the reframe that actually works: people already care, but something's getting in the way of that care

The three things blocking people from acting on climate: feeling powerless, perceived conflicts with identity/heritage, and lack of safety to express vulnerability

"Yell, tell, and sell" - the three dominant (and failing) approaches to climate communication: moralising and scaring people, over-educating with facts, and toxic positivity cheerleading

Why motivational interviewing works: asking "what's your experience with flying?" instead of "don't you realise how bad flying is for the planet?"

The Transport for London cycling campaign that showed a woman riding through a park with flowers - and why honest, gritty messaging (like showing someone drenched and miserable) would actually work better

How Renée trained message researchers to talk with conservative Republican climate skeptics using active listening - and by the end of a two-minute script, they were saying "yeah, let's do something about climate"

Why that breakthrough research can't get traction - and Renée's frustration that the climate world won't listen to what actually works

The question everyone needs to interrogate: what is your theory of change? (Inspiration? Storytelling? Market transformation? Better research? Processing feelings? The arts?)

Why charged information that evokes disgust, shame, blame, or guilt actually impairs our prefrontal cortex - we literally can't process the information we're being given

The five guiding principles for effective changemaking: attune, reveal, convene, equip, and sustain

Why Renée draws the line at having conversations with people who don't recognize her humanity (like Trump) - but why the "messy middle" of people feeling fearful and threatened is where our energy needs to go

Her upcoming book The Changemaker Code - a playbook for anyone who cares deeply about the world and wants to be more effective while protecting their own resilience and well-being

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Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

Timestamps

00:00 Psychology of Climate Communication

01:58 How do I make people care reframe

06:31 Creating the conditions for change

11:23 The Air Travel Pilot Project

14:05 Transport for London Cycling example

19:45 Just Stop Oil and the Spectrum of Climate Action

23:14 3 Ineffective Approaches

25:51 Theories of Change: What Really Drives Human Behaviour

29:42 Republican Climate Skeptics Project: Listening Works

40:16 What about Trump?

45:58 Renée’s upcoming book

48:26 The Neuroscience of Change: Why Fear Backfires

50:28 Final Bits: Being Seen and Heard

Mark Shayler has spent 35 years working in sustainability before it was cool - and he's saved his clients over $200 million while doing it. He's an environmental consultant, innovation specialist, and straight-talking force of nature who works with everyone from Coca-Cola to Unilever to tiny manufacturing businesses in Bradford. He believes that, whilst business created most of the world's problems, it's also the thing that can fix them.

Mark doesn't do sandals-and-placards environmentalism. He meets companies where they are, speaks the language of profit and loss, and isn't afraid to work with the "bad guys" if it means shifting their trajectory by even half a degree. This is sustainability from the inside out - messy, pragmatic, and unapologetically commercial.

In this episode, we dive into:

Why "being green" has become a way of beating people down instead of democratising climate action - and how judgment creates division, not progress

The evolution of corporate sustainability requests: from "keep me out of prison" to "keep me lean" to "help me care more" to today's "help me stay relevant and attract talent"

Why Mark would work with Shein - and exactly what he'd change (regenerative cotton, circular polyester, legitimate leasing instead of borrowing-with-tags-on)

The project-level litmus test: if you can't put the company name on your intro slide without embarrassment, don't take the work

Why quarterly reporting and employer-tied healthcare in America are the biggest brakes on innovation and brave climate action

The "highways department conundrum" - we'll need to see it's too late before we do something about it ("no one's died yet, do you want me to volunteer my 93-year-old nan?")

How consumption became an anti-depressant and why we're no happier buying our 10th pair of jeans than our first

The fertility of "rapid deposition" - why the last third of life should be about giving knowledge away, not hoarding it (and why Mark's plan is: don't retire, don't die)

Why populism and the rolling back of the green agenda isn't about sustainability at all - it's about trust, science, and people being left behind economically

The rise of "green hushing" and why we need to reclaim the narrative - ecology and economy come from the same Greek word meaning "home"

Finding the rebels and renegades inside organisations - the "weird kids" who take risks and want excitement, not corporate uniformity

Why materiality beats moral purity, why movement is a message, and why "for the many, not the few - and you are the many" is the billboard Mark would put up everywhere

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This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

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Find Mark at: https://www.markshayler.com/

And his work at: https://www.thisisape.co.uk/

Timestamps:

00:00 How Mark Explains His Work

03:40 The Problem with Green Washing vs Green Hushing

05:39 Working With "Bad" Companies Like Coca-Cola

08:25 How Mark Judges Which Projects to Take

11:53 Projects He's Said No To

13:45 The Tension Between Good People and Bad Systems

16:30 The Shein Hypothetical

21:37 When Companies Change Beyond Recognition

23:07 How Mark Has Saved Clients $200 Million

26:00 What Green People Get Wrong About Communication

29:15 Why American Healthcare Traps Innovation

32:23 Finding the Rebels Inside Organisations

36:48 Imagination vs Constraint in Sustainability

40:35 The Gentle Stick and Massive Carrot Approach

42:28 Why You Shouldn't Retire

46:03 “Mark, can you help me to…”

49:06 The Threat of Populism to Climate Action

52:03 What Comes After "Mark, Can You Help Me?"

54:47 Will We Roll Back the Green Agenda?

58:00 Patriots vs Jingoists

59:20 If Mark Had a Global Billboard

1:01:15 Why Mark Does What He Does