This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Beyond the pomp and pageantry of Vladimir Putin’s Beijing summit with Xi Jinping, what do Russia and China need from each other? And how strong is their relationship? Plus, coming hot on the heels of Donald Trump’s own Beijing visit, what does it mean for the geopolitical balance in an era of great power competition?

Gavin Esler joins Joseph Webster, senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and editor of the independent China-Russia Report to discuss.

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Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.
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In a new book, Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail, co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations Mark Leonard argues that we have entered an age of ‘un-order’ – when the rules and norms of the international order no longer hold sway.

Can democratic leaders find a way to meet the challenges of an era of widening conflict, geopolitical competition and political division?

In today’s episode, Mark joins Gavin Esler to discuss a new age of instability, and asks who is best prepared to survive chaos, and how?

Buy Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund the podcast by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too.

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Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.
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As drones and missiles darken the skies above conflicts in Ukraine and the Middle East, is a transformation in modern warfare leading to a new arms race? And as technology and tactics evolve, which weapons and defence systems are being bought, and who is buying them? 

Gavin Esler discusses the realities of the arms trade in 2026 with Pieter Wezeman, senior researcher in the Arms Transfers Programme at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

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Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.

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Putin thought that Ukraine would quickly fold under a massively superior Russian onslaught. Instead, the War has seen Ukraine reinventing itself as a world expert in drone warfare, exploiting cheap replaceable tech and digital networks to strike deep and painfully into Russia. Ukraine now leads the world in the air defence expertise required in today’s conflict zones – and nations across Europe and the Middle East now consult Ukraine on the fast-evolving drone tech they need in today’s unstable world. Can Kyiv use drones to gain a significant advantage in the war? And what will it mean for future conflicts, the ethics of war, and international security?

Oz Katerji looks at the new frontier of battlefield tech with journalist and associate research fellow at the Henry Jackson Society, David Kirichenko.

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Written and presented by Oz Katerji. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.
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Though Saddam Hussein tried to develop them and North Korea is accused of stockpiling them, biological weapons have been considered taboo for decades. Theoretically they’re banned. But intelligence agencies and military leaders are increasingly warning of wider clandestine programmes to develop deadly mass toxins, and A.I. is lowering the barriers to entry dramatically. As governments scramble to keep up and frontier tech runs out of control, are we about to enter a new age of bioweapons and bioterrorism? 

Gavin Esler talks to Dr Cassidy Nelson, director of biosecurity policy at the Centre for Long-Term Resilience, about this rising threat and what we can do about it. 

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• Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.

Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.
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