This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

A four-part series from This Is Not A Drill… Warfare is evolving faster than ever in this dangerous world. Gavin Esler explores a new generation of weapons and how they’ll fight – or prevent – the next wars.

This time: When missiles and drones become cheaper and more widely-available, air defence becomes top priority. What does it mean when ruinously expensive interceptors like the Patriot go up against swarms of cheap, disposable Shahed drones? Will future wars be decided on who has the deepest pockets and fastest assembly lines? Can you build an Israeli-style Iron Dome over a territory as big as the USA? Which areas get protected? And does it all depend on the speed of the kill chain?

Gavin Esler talks to:

• Patrycja Bazylczyck, Associate director of the Missile Defence Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS)

• Michael Horowitz, Senior Fellow for Technology and Innovation at the Council on Foreign Relations

• Illya Sekirin, former frontline drone operator for Ukraine and author of Rise of the Machines: Drone Warfare in the Russia-Ukraine War

• Peter Apps, global defence columnist for Reuters, British Army reservist and author of The Next World War

• Major General (Ret.) Mick Ryan of the Australian Army, author of The War for Ukraine and the Futura Doctrina Substack

• Dr Sidharth Kaushal, senior research fellow in the Military Sciences programme at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI)

Buy books through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too.

• Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.

Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.

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A new four-part series from This Is Not A Drill… Warfare is evolving faster than ever in this dangerous world. Gavin Esler explores a new generation of weapons and how they’ll fight – or prevent – the next wars.

This time: In an age of brutal medium-sized regional conflicts, nuclear deterrence is suddenly less important – and missiles are back. From massively destructive hypersonic weapons to smart cruise-drone hybrids to networked “loitering munitions”, they’re becoming faster, more accurate, and more capable of inflicting atrocities on civilians in indiscriminate hands. And as the Iran and Ukraine Wars prove, they’re far from a guarantee of victory.

Gavin Esler talks to:

• Dr Sidharth Kaushal, senior research fellow in the Military Sciences programme at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI)

• Peter Apps, global defense columnist for Reuters, British Army reservist and author of The Next World War

Dr Jessica Dorsey, assistant Professor of International Law and co-director of Realities of Algorithmic Warfare at Utrecht University.

Buy books through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too.

•⁠ Support us on Patreon⁠ to keep This Is Not a Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.

Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.
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A new four-part series from This Is Not A Drill… Putin thought he could conquer Ukraine with a tank, air and infantry-led attack straight out of the Second World War. Instead Kyiv turned the tables on Russia with the fastest, most intensive transformation of warfare in half a century. In this mini-series Gavin Esler explores this new generation of weapons and how they’ll fight – or prevent – the next wars.

This time: cheap, mass-produced drones enabled Kyiv to hit Russia hard and deep. Ukraine is now the world expert in this new technology. What does it mean when you can take out a warship with a weapon that costs less than a family car? What is “precision mass”? And why A.I. will make drones even more powerful.

Gavin Esler talks to:

• Illya Sekirin, former frontline drone operator for Ukraine and author of Rise of the Machines: Drone Warfare in the Russia-Ukraine War

• Michael Horowitz, Senior Fellow for Technology and Innovation at the Council on Foreign Relations

• Peter Apps, global defence columnist for Reuters, British Army reservist and author of The Next World War

• Major General (Ret.) Mick Ryan of the Australian Army, author of The War for Ukraine and the Futura Doctrina Substack

Buy books through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too.

•⁠ Support us on Patreon⁠ to keep This Is Not a Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.

Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.

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Is everything we knew about warfare changing right before our eyes? The war in Ukraine began with tanks and infantry...and now drones dominate in the battle for dominance.

In a brand new four-part series New Weapons for New Wars, we explore what the present and indeed, the future of the battlefield looks like.
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Space is now an essential part of military planning and operations. Recent reports suggest Russia and China have discussed targeting Starlink satellites, highlighting their increasing importance in conflicts. Are ‘space wars’ no longer science fiction but part of military planning? Joining Gavin Esler to discuss the implications and the dangers of this new potential battleground is Dr Mark Hilborne, senior lecturer in the School of Security Studies at King’s College London.

• Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not a Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.

Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices