Middling Along

This time I’m joined by Joe Warner and Rob Kemp, authors of the new book Burning Up, Frozen Out: What Every Man Needs to Know About the Menopause (But No One Told You) – written specifically to help men understand and support their partners through perimenopause and menopause. Joe and Rob share why they wrote the book, the communication tools that can transform midlife relationships, why men don’t need to “fix” anything, and how a little knowledge goes a very long way.

Joe Warner is an award-winning journalist and bestselling author, and former editorial director of Men’s Fitness magazine. He has spent more than two decades working across print, digital and broadcast media, writing extensively about men’s and women’s health, fitness and wellbeing.

Rob Kemp is a freelance journalist and author of seven non-fiction books, including the Amazon-bestselling The Expectant Dad’s Survival Guide, The New Dad’s Survival Guide and The Good Guys: 50 Heroes Who Changed the World with Kindness. He has written about men’s health, parenting and sports for more than 30 years.

What We Talked About

Why Joe and Rob wrote Burning Up, Frozen Out

The parallels Rob noticed between supporting a partner through pregnancy and supporting a partner through perimenopause

Why men often default to “fixer” mode – and the relief that comes from learning they don’t have to fix anything

Moving from a solutions mindset to a support mindset

The “midlife logistics company” problem: how couples stop talking to each other and start just managing schedules

The Midlife MOT – a weekly check-in tool for couples to score how they’re feeling physically and mentally, and use it as a springboard for conversation

The Traffic Light List – a green/amber/red exercise to uncover what your partner loves, tolerates and can’t stand (including in the bedroom)

Active listening vs jumping into solutions: “Do you want help, a hug, or to be heard?”

How men can be the “Sherlock Holmes” who spots perimenopause symptoms before their partner does

The disconnect around sex and intimacy in midlife: why men often seek connection through sex, while women need connection before sex

Spontaneous vs responsive desire, and the idea of the “sizzle” – giving intimacy time to build

Lowered tolerance in perimenopause: why “she’s changed” is the wrong framing

Being a co-advocate at GP appointments and the chapter on “Dealing with the Doctor”

Rob’s biggest surprise: how poorly the medical profession has served women presenting with menopause symptoms

Joe’s biggest surprise: how empowered he felt once he had the knowledge to actually help

 
Key Takeaways

You don’t have to fix it. Shifting from a solutions mindset to a support mindset is the single most powerful change a man can make.

A little education goes a long way. Understanding what’s actually happening hormonally helps men take symptoms seriously, respond with empathy, and spot what’s going on – sometimes before their partner does.

Communication is a skill, not a talent. It needs practice, just like anything else. The book provides a menu of practical tools and phrases you can pick and choose from.

Make time sacred. A weekly coffee, a walk, a Midlife MOT check-in – carving out regular, low-pressure time to talk is the single habit that every expert Jo and Rob spoke to swore by.

You’re not alone. Isolation makes everything harder. This is something couples go through together, and asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness.

 

“Once they read in the book that their job isn’t to fix anything, you can almost see the weight of the world lift off their shoulders.”

– Joe Warner

“All I said to her was, can I make you a cup of tea? That’s all I had.”

– Rob Kemp

Links & Resources

Burning Up, Frozen Out: https://www.johnmurraypress.co.uk/titles/joe-warner/burning-up-frozen-out/9781399826655/

com – includes a free download of Chapter 4 (on men and the midlife crisis) and the Midlife MOT tool

Also mentioned: Listen by Dr Kathryn Mannix; Rebel Bodies by Sarah Graham

 

If you think your partner could benefit from this conversation, send them a link to this episode and to the book. And if you’ve read Burning Up, Frozen Out, Joe and Rob would love to hear from you – get in touch via burningupfrozenout.com.

If you'd like to find out more about my work, or how to work with me, please visit www.thetripleshift.org/starthere

“For most of our lives, women have been told that if we look a certain way and behave a certain way, the world will unfold for us. Only to reach midlife and find that, for most of us, it isn’t true, and the booby prize is that apparently we now have to spend yet more time and money obsessing about how to claw our way back to a place of acceptance that never existed.”

 

In this episode I speak to Poorna Bell — award-winning journalist, author, and former UK executive editor for HuffPost — to talk about her new book She Wanted More, the cultural shift happening among women in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, and why the conversation around midlife needs to change.

Poorna describes the atmosphere before her 40th birthday as apocalyptic, with friends talking about it like the end of the world, and society treating 40 as a cliff edge. Surprisingly, to her, the world didn't end. In fact, things got better. Over the five years since, she's watched her life move on an upwards trajectory, something society never told her was possible. She Wanted More is her response to that gap between what women are told about midlife and what actually happens when you're in it.

Poorna noticed women all around her in their 40s, 50s, and 60s making fundamentally different choices than previous generations. Whether that was questioning relationships, redefining career success, opting out of motherhood, or choosing to remain single after divorce. The traditional markers of success (money, power, nuclear family structures) are being interrogated. Women are asking: What do I actually want? What is purpose for me?

This isn't a book prescribing one way to live. It's about creating agency — doing an inventory of your life and asking yourself: What do I need to feel power and intention in my own life?

Poorna advocates for reclaiming the word ‘climacteric’ because it better captures the magnitude of what's happening in the menopause transition. It sounds dramatic because it is dramatic.

She describes her own symptoms as "giant stingrays carrying dread, despair, and fear" — a visceral image that will resonate with anyone who's experienced perimenopausal anxiety and that pervasive sense of doom.

Poorna surveyed around 1,000 women for the book, and one surprising finding was the fear younger women now have about perimenopause. Media coverage has skewed heavily negative, and many women in their 20s and 30s are genuinely terrified. Poorna's response? We need balance. Yes, some women have brutal experiences. But many don't. The goal isn't to sugarcoat it or pretend it's all wonderful, but to give women the full picture so they can prepare without catastrophizing.

Poorna quotes Ashley Kelch in the book: "The most disruptive act in midlife isn't leaving your job or your relationship. It's leaving behind the version of yourself that you created in order to survive."

For Poorna, that meant shedding the version of herself that was palatable, agreeable, and constantly performing. She describes younger Poorna as someone who would say yes to everything, who prioritized being liked over being authentic. Midlife gave her permission to stop. She's learned to listen to her body's signals, to say no without guilt, to recognize when she simply doesn't have the spoons for something, and to honour that without shame.

The global anti-aging market is set to be worth $80 billion in four years. Poorna calls it "the same shit, repackaged" — a relentless marketing machine selling women the idea that looking young is the only way to remain valuable. And yet, when she asked the women she surveyed what getting older meant to them, not one mentioned looks. They talked about freedom, contentment, peacefulness, having options.

So how do we opt out of this pressure? Poorna's advice: stop engaging with the narratives that don't serve you. Unfollow accounts that make you feel inadequate. Surround yourself with images and stories of women who are thriving in midlife on their own terms. Representation matters — and we have more control over our media diet than we think.

One of the most moving parts of the book is Poorna's conversation with her own mother about her early life before becoming a mother. Her mother had a place at university. Everything was paid for. But her grandfather wouldn't let her go because it would have meant living with a family he didn't approve of. Later, when her mother's employer suggested she take auditor exams, her father dismissed it: "You're going back to India to get married soon, so there's no point."

Listening to her mother recount this, Poorna felt rage. She could see the brightness, the potential, the intelligence — and the loss of what could have been. That conversation made Poorna softer and more compassionate with her mother. She now asks anyone whose mother is still around: have that conversation. Ask about their life before you were on the scene. Their answers won't be defensive because they're not connected to you as a person — they're just telling you their story. It's precious.

Key Takeaways:

Midlife isn't a cliff edge. Society lies. Your 40s, 50s, and 60s can be an upwards trajectory if you let them be.

Question the definitions of success you've inherited. Money and power aren't the only measures. What does success mean to you?

Let go of the version of yourself you created to survive. Midlife is permission to stop performing and start being.

Listen to your body's signals. If you don't have the spoons, you don't have the spoons. Honour that.

Opt out of anti-aging narratives that don't serve you. Curate your media diet. Surround yourself with images of women thriving in midlife.

Talk to your mother about her early life. If she's still around and you have a relationship with her, ask about who she was before you existed. You'll learn something profound.

 

Instagram, Threads, and TikTok: @poornabell

She Wanted More https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/she-wanted-more-reimagine-your-future-and-live-by-your-rules-poorna-bell/2eea99431a408200?ean=9781785122835&next=t&next=t&affiliate=11357 

Also check out her previous book Stronger — pairs beautifully with this one

Ways to work & connect with me:

Coaching 1-1 http://www.thetripleshift.org  

Menopause in the workplace support at www.managingthemenopause.com 

Subscribe to my newsletter at https://middlingalong.substack.com/  

Connect with me at https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmacthomas/

Ever asked yourself…

Am I too sensitive? Too ambitious? Too angry? Too loud? Too quiet? Too complicated to be loved as I am? Too much? Not enough?

In this episode, I sit down with Sophie Jane Lee, journalist, author of Beyond Palatable: A Manifesto for Unapologetic Women, and founder of Electric Peach, to talk about what it really means to stop performing, start listening to yourself, and reclaim your right to take up space.

Sophie names the cultural trap that's crushing our generation of women: we were promised we could have it all, but what we actually got was the expectation to do it all… badass boss at work, doting mother at the school gates, generous keeper of family birthdays, the woman who never stops and never sits still. Meanwhile, the unpaid emotional labour hasn't shifted. We're performing strength and independence while internalising our exhaustion as personal failure, when it's actually systemic oppression dressed up as empowerment.

This quote from Sophie in the book pretty much sums up much of how I feel on the daily: “We need to stop saying women can have it all. We don’t want it all. We want someone else to take some of the burden and give us a fucking break.”

Sophie chose the word palatable deliberately. Unlikability is about the impact you have on others: it's reactive, aggressive, and still shaped by external expectations. Palatability is about the energy you carry within yourself. It's the constant self-constricting, the dulling down, the fitting into outdated moulds. Moving beyond palatable doesn't mean you have to burn your bra at dawn or become brash and confrontational. It can be quiet, considered, spacious. It's about taking up space in your way, on your terms.

 

Sophie reframes people-pleasing not as a personal weakness to "recover" from, but as a nervous system response (the fawn response to feeling unsafe). Demonising yourself for a survival mechanism you learned as a child is the opposite of self-care. The goal isn't to become unlikable or stop caring about others. It's to stop abandoning yourself in the process.

Forget "if it's not a fuck yes, it's a fuck no." Sophie offers something far more grounded: tune into your body's wisdom. When your shoulders hunch, your stomach roils, your chest tightens? That's your nervous system telling you something. Not every social anxiety means you should shut yourself away, but constantly putting yourself into dysregulation because you're overriding your body's signals is unsustainable. Learn to pause. Check in. Ask yourself: Do I really want to do this? Sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes it's "I'll do this, but I'll resource myself first."

What will you learn from the book?

Your innate worth is not negotiable. Your right to experience joy is real. The more you abandon your own needs, ignore your body, override your internal navigation system, the more you disconnect from joy, from yourself, from others. Sophie wants to start a revolution of unapologetic women who shine their light in their own unique way. Not because it's radical or rebellious, but because happy people aren't mean. When we self-resource, when we allow ourselves our fullest expression, we rise together.

How to Become More Unapologetic in Your Own Life:

Notice the performance. Where are you performing the role of "good girl," "perfect mother," "always-on professional"? What's the cost to your nervous system?

Stop demonising your people-pleasing. It's not a flaw. It's a response to feeling unsafe. Treat it with compassion, not shame.

Listen to your body's signals. Your body knows before your brain catches up. Learn to recognise the embodied no. You don't have to override it every time, you get to choose.

Practice nervous system regulation. Breathe out longer than you breathe in. Pause before responding. Resource yourself before you walk into situations that dysregulate you.

Cultivate self-worth as a lifelong practice. Believe you have as much right to a part of the pie as anyone else. Stop leaving nothing for yourself.

Take up space in your own way. You don't have to be loud or bold. Unapologetic can be quiet. Unapologetic can be considered. It just has to be true to you.

Remember: your healing makes way for others. When you stop abandoning yourself, you give other women permission to do the same. We rise together.

This is for those who’ve shrunk themselves to fit in. For our younger selves. And for the girls growing up in a world of filters, pressure, and impossible standards.

Find out more about Sophie, her work, and the book at: 

https://beyondpalatable.com/  (includes resources and workbook materials)

Join the Unapologetic Voices Marathon event on 2nd March here; https://electric-peach.kit.com/d19d48107c (free) 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophieturton/ 

Instagram: @electricpeachstudios

Find out more about Emma, her coaching, and how to work with her at www.thetripleshift.org/starthere

“What we call a risk is often just hanging on to a reality that may no longer be true.”

In this episode I chat with Avivah Wittenberg-Cox, a global expert on 21st-century leadership, gender and generational balance, longevity, and the future of work.

We explore the Four Quarter Lives framework (Q1 Grow, Q2 Achieving, Q3 Becoming, Q4 Harvesting), why lifespans are getting longer, and what that means for individuals, teams, and organizations.

Our conversation covers practical changes for workplaces, the reframing of aging beyond decline, how to approach risk in midlife, and how to design careers and communities for longer, more purposeful lives. The episode includes guidance on leadership strategy, intergenerational collaboration, and personal planning for a longer horizon.

Key takeaways

- The Four Quarter Lives framework reframes a 100-year life into four 25-year phases: Grow (Q1), Achieving (Q2), Becoming (Q3), Harvesting (Q4). This helps individuals and organizations plan for longer, more varied careers.

- Achieving (Q2) is not the endpoint; Q3 is a peak period for meaningful work, mentorship, and legacy-building, especially for women who have faced traditional juggling pressures.

- Q4 is not decline; it’s a time for legacy, contribution, and intergenerational engagement. As lifespans extend, many will shift toward continued purpose, learning, and mentoring.

- Ageism and DEI shouldn’t be the starting frame for addressing aging in organizations. Instead, demographics should be integrated into strategic planning at the executive level to influence talent, markets, and long-term resilience.

- Midlife is a critical transition - often mischaracterized as a crisis. A proactive “midlife rethink” helps people plan for a longer horizon and avoid stagnation.

- Intergenerational connections are valuable. Practical ideas like Generations Over Dinner can foster mutual understanding and collaboration across age groups.

- The conversation emphasizes resilience and opportunity: risk should be reframed as choosing growth over clinging to a status quo that no longer aligns with longer, healthier lifespans.

 

Resources and links mentioned

- Four Quarter Lives podcast: https://www.avivahwittenbergcox.com/podcasts/4-quarter-lives 

- Elderberries Substack: https://elderberries.substack.com/ 

- 20 First: https://20-first.com/ 

- Generations Over Dinner: https://www.generationsoverdinner.com/  — a practical way to connect different age groups

- The Correspondent by Virginia Evans: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/the-correspondent-virginia-evans/7732977 

 

Who should listen

- Midcareer professionals (especially those in their 40s–60s) planning for longer, more varied career lives

- Leaders and HR/talent professionals shaping long-term workforce strategy and age-inclusive growth

- Anyone interested in reframing aging, intergenerational collaboration, and longevity as a positive opportunity

 

If you enjoy the podcast please help us grow by sharing this episode, or writing a review.

You can also find me at www.thetripleshift.org / www.managingthemenpause.com 

connect with me at https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmacthomas/ 

follow along on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/middlingalong_podcast/

or subscribe to my Substack at https://middlingalong.substack.com/

It's just over 5 years since I started strength training in the 'Twixmas' of 2020, so it feels very timely to be bringing you this interview with Kate Oakley at the start of a new year...

Kate is the founder of Your Future Fit, has always loved fitness and training - but for years it was something she squeezed in around a demanding corporate career and family life. Then, during lockdown and shortly after turning 50, she decided it was time for change. After a 25-year career in HR, she retrained as a Personal Trainer, wanting a role that made her jump out of bed in the mornings and truly embrace midlife. 

Kate knew exactly who she wanted to help: peri- and post-menopausal women navigating the same challenges she’d faced herself. Her goal is to help women not just get through this stage of life, but thrive – despite the challenges.

In 2025 Kate launched her own strength-training app, Lift for Life, designed for women over 40 who want to build muscle, support bone health, and future-proof their bodies while feeling their best right now but for whom 1-1 personal training isn’t accessible. She also shares plenty of clear, practical fitness advice and midlife wellbeing insights with her engaged community on Instagram, helping women everywhere discover that it’s never too late to get strong.

Key themes and takeaways

Why strength training matters in midlife
Strength training supports bone density, joint health, posture, daily activities, and overall well-being.

There’s a strong mental health component: increased resilience and a greater sense of control during a period when life can feel unpredictable.

The goal is long-term health and a future you’ll thank yourself for, not a quick fix.

Starting small and making it doable
Begin with short, manageable workouts—10 minutes is a practical starting point.

Home-based training reduces intimidation and makes consistency more feasible.

Minimal equipment needed: a mat and a pair of dumbbells (plus space at home).

How to structure an early program
Focus on slow, controlled movements and proper technique to prevent injuries.

Prioritize progressive overload over time: gradually increase weight or the load of exercises as you get stronger.

Understand that progress may be gradual; even small improvements accumulate over weeks and months.

The benefits of time-boxed, consistent practice
Short, regular sessions are more sustainable than sporadic longer workouts.

A consistent routine helps compound benefits in daily life and mood.

Addressing gym anxiety and accessibility
Training at home eliminates common barriers (gym intimidation, schedule constraints, travel time).

Most people don’t need fancy equipment; the right program and technique matter more than gear.

Lift for Life: what it offers
Foundations: a 20–30 minute, three-workout-per-week program centered on technique and safe, slow movements.

Momentum: an advanced stage for those ready to progress beyond Foundations.

Progressive programming and accountability: workouts are purposefully programmed (not random) to ensure progressive overload over time.

Monthly intake with community support: a welcoming, non-pressured culture that emphasizes kindness to oneself and sustainable habit formation.

Minimal equipment and home-friendly structure: designed to be easy to join and fit into busy midlife lives.

Emphasis on community: accountability and social motivation help people show up consistently.

Mindset and sustainability
The approach encourages treating workouts like brushing teeth: non-negotiable, integrated into weekly life.

If motivation wanes, use strategies like committing to 10 minutes and allowing yourself to stop if you truly need to, then continue if you feel up to it.

Self-talk matters: replace harsh internal narratives with supportive, encouraging language.

Practical tips Kate shares for beginners
Start with 10-minute workouts at home, using a mat and light dumbbells.

Schedule workouts in your diary (e.g., Monday, Wednesday, Saturday) and aim for consistency, with flexibility when life gets busy.

Focus on technique first; quality over quantity prevents injury and builds a solid foundation.

Don’t compare yourself to others in classes or on social media—focus on your own pace and progress.

Build gradually: as strength and confidence grow, you can extend workouts to 20–30 minutes and increase resistance.

Long-term benefits and “health pension”
The cumulative effect of regular strength work improves bone health, posture, energy, and daily functioning.

Prioritizing midlife strength training sets up better health outcomes for later decades, including easier mobility and better quality of life.

 

Resources mentioned

If you’re listening and considering a move toward stronger midlife fitness, Lift for Life offers a structured, approachable path with a focus on safety, consistency, and long-term health.

 

Ongoing Discount Offer - for Middling Along listeners Kate has kindly offered you access to Life for Life for £49 per month for as long as you stay (usually £59 per month).  The next intake starts on 12th January 2026 (and there are monthly intakes if now is not the right time for you!)

https://kate-oakley.boonpage.com/lift-for-life?promo_code=save10pp

https://www.yourfuturefit.com

 

https://www.instagram.com/yourfuturefit

If you enjoy the podcast please help us grow by sharing this episode, or writing a review.

Ways to work with me:

Coaching with me at http://www.thetripleshift.org  

Menopause in the workplace support at www.managingthemenopause.com 

And don’t forget to:

Subscribe to my newsletter at https://middlingalong.substack.com/  

Check our over 100 podcast episodes in the archive at www.middlingalong.com

Connect with me at https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmacthomas/  

Follow me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/middlingalong_podcast/