Neuroshambles

The final episode of season 3 marks a first for Neuroshambles, as it’s the first ever live recording, performed in front of an audience. Mark is joined by returning guest Lisa Lloyd (@asd_with_a_g_and_t) for a raucous and laughter-filled discussion around what it's like to be a neurodivergent parent raising neurodivergent kids.

They examine a wide range of autistic, ADHD and PDA traits, and discuss how each of these can impact a neurodivergent parents’ experience of raising neurodivergent kids. They shine light onto sensory sensitivity, touch aversion, and the chaos that unplanned changes can cause in a home that runs on routine. They also talk candidly about masking, difficulty with social interactions with other parents, executive functioning, rejection sensitivity and the challenge of navigating your own overwhelm while supporting a child through meltdown.

There are plenty of positives too, as Mark and Lisa find the upside of autism parenting in shared understanding, a healthy disregard for authority, and the sense of injustice that fuels so many neurodivergent parents’ advocacy work. This warm, insightful and hilarious episode is a must listen for anyone navigating parenting through the lens of their own neurodivergency.

 

CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS (ESTIMATED)

00:01:26 - Meet the guest: Lisa Lloyd

00:06:07 - Topic of the week: parenting neurodivergent kids as a neurodivergent parent

00:13:24 - A shared neurotype and a closer bond with the kids

00:15:48 - Sensory sensitivity and touch aversion

00:21:22 - Coping with changes of plan

00:27:13 - Masking, social struggles and finding your tribe

00:35:10 - Executive function and the never-ending admin

00:40:36 - Rejection sensitivity

00:47:13 - Navigating overwhelm and meltdowns together

00:58:39 - The Positives: the upsides of neurodivergent parenting

01:07:09 - Neurodiversity Champions

01:13:31 - Tiny Epic Wins

01:18:08 - What The Flip Moments

 

LINKS TO STUFF WE MENTION IN THIS EPISODE

Neuroshambles mailing list sign-up (with free PDF of What the Flip moments) - https://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2414072/190019322933937234/share

Unmasking Mum by Lisa Lloyd - https://amzn.eu/d/0gbnKiwm

Lisa Lloyd (ASD with a G&T) on the socials:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/asd_with_a_g_and_t/

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@asd.with.a.g.and.t

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ASDwithGandT

Includes Us Too - https://includesustoo.org.uk/

Spinning World of Autism (Laura Brown) - https://www.spinningworldofautism.com/

Speak Up for Autism petition - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/764248

PDA Society - https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/

 

CONTACT NEUROSHAMBLES

🌐 Website: www.neuroshambles.com

📧 Email: hello@neuroshambles.com

📸 Instagram: @neuroshambles

🎵 TikTok: @neuroshamblespod

📘 Facebook: Neuroshambles

📬 Sign up to the Neuroshambles mailing list: https://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2414072/190019322933937234/share

 

CREDITS

🎧 Sound recording by CRT Audiotech: https://www.instagram.com/crtaudiotech/

🎥 Video recording by Brown Bear Studios, Brighton: https://brownbearstudios.co.uk/

🎶 Theme music by Skilsel on Pixabay: pixabay.com

Mark welcomes back a Neuroshambles favourite Lisa Galley, for a deep dive into one of the topics every family raising neurodivergent kids will recognise: meltdowns. As an autism family consultant and mum to three of her own, fully grown neurodivergent humans, Lisa brings a wealth of lived experience to help unpick what is really going on in a child's brain and body when their nervous system tips beyond its limits.

Mark and Lisa explore the three main contributing factors to meltdowns, before working through the four main survival responses that PDA and other neurodivergent kids can show when overwhelmed: fight, flight, freeze and fawn. They also tackle one of the most frustrating bugbears for parents of autistic, ADHD and PDA kids - the assumption that a meltdown is simply a tantrum. They dissect exactly why the two are worlds apart and why treating one like the other often makes things worse.

They share honest, sometimes hair-raising stories from their own households, from the most extreme of flight responses to an epic meltdown triggered by an Easter egg hunt and they offer a genuinely practical rundown of what can help before, during and after a meltdown happens. It's the kind of grounded, funny, non-judgemental chat about parenting neurodivergent kids that Neuroshambles listeners are looking - whether they're seeking autistic parenting advice for the first time or simply want to feel a little less alone in the chaos.

 

CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS (ESTIMATED)

00:01:10 - Meet the guest: Lisa Galley returns
00:03:02 - Topic of the week: what actually is a meltdown?
00:04:48 - The window of tolerance and the nervous system
00:13:37 - Three main causes of meltdown: sensory, communication and unpredictability
00:23:15 - Fight, flight, freeze and fawn: the four meltdown responses
00:43:00 - Tantrums vs meltdowns: what's the difference?
00:49:31 - Common misconceptions about meltdowns
00:50:55 - Public meltdowns and dealing with judgement
00:57:53 - Spotting the signs before a meltdown happens
01:06:43 - What actually helps during a meltdown
01:18:39 - The Positives
01:21:48 - Neurodiversity Champions
01:26:31 - Tiny Epic Wins
01:30:39 - What The Flip? Moments

 

LINKS TO STUFF WE MENTION IN THIS EPISODE

Parenting Your Autistic Child: Permission to Do It Differently, by Lisa Galley - https://amzn.eu/d/09LMvRVR

Lisa Galley's website - https://lisagalley.com

Lisa Galley's free Autism Parenting Guide to Meltdowns (plus bonus meltdown tracker) - https://learn.lisagalley.com/meltdownsguide

Different Minds: How We Can Help Our Autistic School Children Thrive, by Pete Wharmby - https://amzn.eu/d/0cE2Sjcq

Neuroshambles mailing list sign-up (with free PDF of What the Flip moments) - https://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2414072/190019322933937234/share

 

📣 CONTACT US

🌐 Website: www.neuroshambles.com

📧 Email: hello@neuroshambles.com

📸 Instagram: @neuroshambles

🎵 TikTok: @neuroshamblespod

📘 Facebook: Neuroshambles

📬 Sign up to the Neuroshambles mailing list: https://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2414072/190019322933937234/share

 

🎙️ CREDITS

🎶 Theme music by Skilsel on Pixabay: pixabay.com

The issue of how to navigate sleep with our neurodivergent kids is one of the most requested topics on Neuroshambles, so Mark brought in someone who actually knows what she's talking about. This episode tackles the question that haunts pretty much every household raising neurodivergent kids: how do you get them to sleep, keep them asleep, and stop them waking up at some ungodly hour demanding an apple?

Mark is joined by Michelle Cyril, a children's nurse and fully qualified paediatric sleep consultant who specialises in supporting families of autistic, ADHD and PDA kids. She's also a parent of neurodivergent twins herself, so this isn't advice from someone lecturing from a textbook - it's advice from someone who's been on the sharp end of three-hour bedtime battles too.

Mark and Michelle break bedtime down into its component parts of chaos: the bedtime routine itself, actually getting to sleep, staying asleep through the night, and waking up - wether that’s ludicrously early, or begrudgingly late. They cover why traditional sleep advice is largely useless for neurodivergent kids, how PDA turns bedtime into a demand minefield, and dive into the knotty issue of melatonin. Anyone wondering whether melatonin is safe, why GPs are so reluctant to prescribe it, or why their kid can't seem to switch their brain off at night will find answers here.

Whether it's a PDA profile, an ADHD brain that won't switch off, or a kid who just runs unnervingly hot in bed, there's something in this episode for most Neuroshamblers.

 

CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS (Estimated)

00:01:48 - Meet the Guest: Michelle Cyril
00:04:00 - Topic of the Week: Why Sleep Is Such a Battle
00:13:39 - The Traditional Sleep Advice That Just Doesn't Work
00:16:13 - Making Bedtime Routines Fun Instead of Boring
00:26:35 - PDA, Demand Avoidance and Bedtime
00:34:06 - Getting to Sleep: Busy Brains and Familiar Stories
00:45:11 - The Melatonin Debate
00:58:39 - Staying Asleep: Night Waking and Anxiety
01:10:46 - The Early Morning Wake-Up Struggle
01:17:23 - The Impact of Poor Sleep on Parents
01:23:02 - Sleep Deprivation and Its Ripple Effects
01:26:44 - Finding the Silver Linings
01:28:39 - Neurodiversity Champions
01:31:48 - Tiny Epic Wins
01:35:58 - What the Flip?

 

LINKS TO STUFF WE MENTION IN THIS EPISODE

Neuroshambles mailing list sign-up (with free PDF of What the Flip moments) - https://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2414072/190019322933937234/share

Michelle Cyril, Family Sleep Specialist - https://familysleepspecialist.co.uk/

Busy Brains at Bedtime (Michelle's free download) - https://familysleepspecialist.co.uk/busy-brains-guide/

Greeking Out (National Geographic podcast) - https://www.nationalgeographic.com/podcasts/greeking-out/

Michael Gradisar - https://winksleep.online/about-michael-gradisar

Confusional Arousals - https://www.sleepfoundation.org/parasomnias/confusional-arousal

Neuro Embrace, Madeleine Woolgar - https://www.neuro-embrace.com

ARFID Life UK - https://www.facebook.com/p/ARFID-Life-UK-61569140673395/

 

📣 CONTACT US

🌐 Website: www.neuroshambles.com

📧 Email: hello@neuroshambles.com

📸 Instagram: @neuroshambles

🎵 TikTok: @neuroshamblespod

📘 Facebook: Neuroshambles

📬 Sign up to the Neuroshambles mailing list: https://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2414072/190019322933937234/share

 

CREDITS

🎙️ CREDITS

🎶 Theme music by Skilsel on Pixabay: pixabay.com

Part two of our deep dive into EBSA for neurodivergent children is essential listening for anyone navigating the school avoidance minefield as a parent or carer of a neurodivergent child - whether they are autistic, ADHD, PDA profile, or any combination of the above.

Heidi Mavir returns to offer her advice as someone who has lived every corner of this experience - not only in her own life, but also through her advocacy work with thousands of families affected by barriers to attendance. In this episode, we dig into the real-world impact - the emotional, financial and logistical strain it places on families.

We also look at practical things parents can actually do if their child is experiencing barriers to attendance - from how absences should be coded at school, to what the Children's Wellbeing Bill means for home education rights, to when a part-time timetable might help and when it's just a sticking plaster.

If you're wrestling with EBSA daily and you’re looking for advice that's rooted in lived experience, this is the episode for you.

 

CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS (ESTIMATED)

00:01:28 - Meet The Guest
00:03:25 - Topic of the Week: Barriers to Attendance Part 2
00:03:59 - Parental Blame and Being Doubted by School Professionals
00:09:32 - Attendance Targets, Fines, and Rewarding Full Attendance
00:13:23 - "Make Home Less Appealing" and Other Unhelpful Advice
00:17:49 - Why Exposure Therapy Doesn't Work for EBSA
00:21:35 - The Emotional, Financial and Relational Impact on Parents
00:35:34 - What You Can Actually Do: Practical Advice for Families
00:53:15 - Home Education, Deregistering and the Children's Wellbeing Bill
01:11:46 - EOTAS and When School Just Isn't the Right Shape
01:15:07 - It's Not All Rubbish: Specialist Settings and What Works
01:20:05 - Neurodiversity Champions
01:25:19 - Tiny Epic Wins
01:31:10 - What the Flip!

LINKS TO STUFF WE MENTION IN THIS EPISODE

Neuroshambles mailing list sign-up (with free PDF of all What the Flip moments from all 59 episodes) - https://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2414072/190019322933937234/share

Your Child Is Not Broken book, Heidi Mavir - https://www.heidimavir.com/i-wrote-a-book

Your Child Is Not Broken free Facebook community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/eotasmatters

Heidi Mavir: The Marble run - https://www.heidimavir.com/the-marble-run

Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Act - https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3909

Section 19 of Children and Families Act - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/6/section/19

EOTAS, EOTIS, EOTISC - https://www.ipsea.org.uk/home-education-and-education-otherwise

Not Fine in School - https://www.notfineinschool.co.uk

Define Fine - https://www.definefine.org.uk/

SEND Advocacy Limited (Alice) - https://www.sendadvocacy.com/

Audhdacious Humans - https://www.audhdacious.com/

Make and Create Club - https://www.audhdacious.com/make-and-create/club/

Eliza Fricker and "Can't Not Won't" - https://amzn.eu/d/0bMMrrwa

 

📣 CONTACT NEUROSHAMBLES

🌐 Website: www.neuroshambles.com

📧 Email: hello@neuroshambles.com

📸 Instagram: @neuroshambles

🎵 TikTok: @neuroshamblespod

📘 Facebook: Neuroshambles

📬 Sign up to the Neuroshambles mailing list: https://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2414072/190019322933937234/share

 

🎙️ CREDITS

🎶 Theme music by Skilsel on Pixabay: https://pixabay.com

If you are a parent or carer of a neurodivergent child, the chances are that school attendance has been a topic that has kept you awake at night. Whether you know it as school refusal, emotionally based school avoidance, or one of a dozen other terms, it is one of the most stressful and isolating things a family can go through.

As a neurodivergent parenting podcast, Neuroshambles has been asked about this topic more than almost any other, so this week’s guest is one of the best in the business. Heidi Mavir is a best-selling author, public speaker, late-identified autistic and ADHD adult, and one of the most knowledgeable and tireless advocates for SEND families in the UK. Her own journey with her son Theo, who went from full school attendance to none at all in the space of a few months at the age of fourteen, gives her both the lived experience and the hard-won expertise to talk about this topic like very few others can.

This is Part 1 of a two-part episode, so here we focus on what barriers to attendance actually looks like in neurodivergent children and young people - from the terminology chaos to the sensory nightmare of school environments, the morning meltdowns, the masking, the after-school explosions, the physical symptoms, and ultimately what can happen when it all builds up into burnout. Part 2 will focus on the family impact and what you can actually do about it.

If you are a parent trying to make sense of what is happening with your child and school, this one is for you.

 

CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS (ESTIMATED)

00:01:37 - Meet the Guest - Heidi Mavir

00:05:08 - What is EBSA? Unpacking the Terminology

00:19:01 - Why School is a Sensory and Emotional Minefield

00:30:40 - The PDA Dimension - Demand Avoidance in School

00:35:27 - Early Signs of Barriers to Attendance

00:42:00 - Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn and Flop - Polyvagal Theory

00:45:33 - After-School Meltdowns and the Masking Behind Them

00:52:19 - Physical Symptoms - When the Body Tells the Story

00:57:01 - What Changes Outside of School?

01:03:41 - How Barriers to Attendance Build Up Gradually Over Time

01:07:42 - Autistic Burnout - When It All Catches Up

01:17:22 - Neurodiversity Champions

01:20:13 - Tiny Epic Wins

01:23:04 - What the Flip?

 

LINKS TO STUFF WE MENTION IN THIS EPISODE

Your Child Is Not Broken by Heidi Mavir - https://www.heidimavir.com/i-wrote-a-book

EOTAS Matters - https://www.heidimavir.com/forfamilies

PDA Society: School Distress - https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-helps-guides/pda-and-emotionally-based-school-avoidance-ebsa/

Kieran Rose: School Induced Trauma - https://theautisticadvocate.com/school-refusal-or-school-induced-trauma-rethinking-ebsa-ebsna-and-the-harm-we-call-help/

Audhdacious Humans - https://www.audhdacious.com/

Polyvagal Theory - https://www.polyvagalinstitute.org/whatispolyvagaltheory

Scouts UK - https://www.scouts.org.uk/

Heidi Mavir/Rachel Filmer webinar on SEND Reform Proposals - https://eotasmatters.kartra.com/page/WhitePaperWebinar

Black SEN Mamas - https://blacksenmamas.com/

Rachel Filmer - https://www.instagram.com/sendra.uk/

Not Fine in School - https://www.notfineinschool.co.uk

Square Peg - https://www.teamsquarepeg.co.uk/

Define Fine - https://www.definefine.org.uk/

 

📣 CONTACT US

🌐 Website: www.neuroshambles.com

📧 Email: hello@neuroshambles.com

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neuroshambles/

🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@neuroshamblespod

📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Neuroshambles/

 

🎙️ CREDITS

🎶 Theme music by Skilsel on Pixabay: pixabay.com