Macro N Cheese

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They say the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn’t exist. Capitalism pulled off something even trickier: convincing us it’s just the way things work.
Historian Andrew Hartman joins Steve to examine how American public education became a battleground in the struggle over class, ideology, and political consciousness. Drawing on his book Education and the Cold War: The Battle for the American School, Andrew traces how the radical possibilities of the 1930s, including militant teacher organizing and encouraging students to question capitalist individualism, were systematically narrowed by the Red Scare. Schools increasingly shifted toward preparing students to adapt to the existing order.
Steve and Andrew explore the crucial role of liberal anti-communism, the Cold War equating of capitalism with democracy and freedom, and an educational culture that treats capitalism as ordinary reality while Marxism and socialism must continually justify their existence. The result is a powerful look at cultural hegemony: how the boundaries of what Americans consider reasonable, possible, or even thinkable were constructed, and why so much of that Cold War ideological architecture remains with us today.
Andrew Hartman is a distinguished professor of history at Illinois State University and the author of several books, including Education and the Cold War: The Battle for the American School; A War for the Soul of America: A History of the Culture Wars; and Karl Marx in America, out in 2025 with the University of Chicago Press.
His website: Andrew Hartman
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrewghartman
Twitter/X: @HartmanAndrew
IG: https://www.instagram.com/professorandrewhartman/
BlueSky: @andrewhartman.bsky.social
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-hartman-45045610/

Erald Kolasi returns to the podcast to remind us that AI doesn’t simply exist weightlessly in the ephemeral cloud. Drawing on his research into its global energy and emissions impact, Erald traces AI’s vast material infrastructure, from mining, semiconductors, water, energy, and logistics to data centers and power generation. His life-cycle analysis reveals a monster-sized ecological footprint, in contrast to conventional estimates that focus narrowly on electricity consumed at data centers.
But this goes deeper than technology. Steve and Erald examine AI through the dynamics of capital accumulation, monopoly power, financial speculation, imperialism, and the intimate relationship between corporations and the capitalist state. Its explosive growth reflects decisions about who controls society’s resources and what they are used for. The conversation closes by imagining a radically different trajectory: publicly controlled technology directed toward reducing necessary labor and meeting human needs rather than enriching private capital and accelerating ecological destruction. What kind of political economic system would this require?
AI is the subject, but capitalism is the story.
Erald Kolasi is a writer and researcher focusing on the nexus between energy, technology, economics, complex systems, and ecological dynamics. His book, The Physics of Capitalism, came out from Monthly Review Press in February 2025. He received his PhD in Physics from George Mason University in 2016. You can find out more about Erald and his work at his website, eraldkolasi.com.
Subscribe to his Substack: https://substack.com/@technodynamics

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If public power repeatedly stands behind private finance when it fails, shouldn't that same power be directed toward employment, productive capacity, and human need? So why isn't it?

Economist Eric Tymoigne returns to the podcast to examine the rapid growth of private credit and private equity through Hyman Minsky’s theory of money manager capitalism. Eric argues that the expansion of payment-in-kind interest, securitization, layered leverage, and dependence on rising asset prices are signs that Ponzi finance is becoming increasingly embedded in private markets, making the financial system more fragile. He warns that efforts to “democratize” these markets by opening them to ordinary savers will broaden the pool of investors available to absorb risks and losses (which should really be borne by the wealthy.)

The conversation then moves from financial instability to political economy. Through an MMT lens, Eric explains the enormous potential capacity of a currency-issuing government to contain financial crises, sustain incomes, and direct investment toward public purposes. Again we must ask why it doesn't happen. This raises the deeper question of whose purposes the state serves. Steve and Eric discuss public investment, community banking, the federal job guarantee, the influence of wealth on political decision-making, and the limits of electoral democracy in a capitalist system.

Eric Tymoigne is an Associate Professor of Economics at Lewis & Clark College, Portland, Oregon; and Research Associate at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College. His areas of teaching and research include macroeconomics, money and banking, and monetary economics.
Find him on Twitter @tymoignee

Daniel Tutt and returning guest C. Derick Varn join Steve to discuss their new book, The People Are Not One: Socialist Strategy After Left Populism, whose title states its thesis outright. When the left speaks of a unified people confronting a corrupt elite, it conceals the real stratifications inside the working class and borrows a Manichean framework that functions identically on the right. Their argument: since 2008, from Occupy through Syriza, Podemos, Corbyn, and Sanders, left populism has served to extinguish the class antagonism at the center of socialism, operating as a new Popular Front in which liberalism holds the upper hand.
The conversation lands directly on this show's own history. Varn is blunt about his long-running argument with MMT advocates: he never disputed the nature of the currency, he disputed the analysis of power. They are not going to let you have a Job Guarantee, because it removes their ability to discipline workers. Steve agrees, describing his own path out of economism and the trap of thinking a basket of policies and a few more progressives in office adds up to a threat to capital.
On class consciousness, Varn is careful with a term he calls one of the most abused in socialist history. The reason to organize around the working class is not its victimhood. It is that the working class already possesses, collectively, the skills to reproduce society. The differences within the working class are resolvable. The difference between the working class and those who live off its labor is not.
They close on electoralism. Varn's formulation: electoralism is a tactic, not a principle. Democracy is the principle. Tutt points to Lenin's actual position, that ballots are justified only alongside extra-parliamentary means and on terms of strict class independence. The Popular Front let liberalism lead. The United Front did not.
If you've followed this show from Ep 218 - Beware! the Counter-Revolution with C. Derick Varn, through Ep 318 - The Death of the Left? with Simon Winlow & Steve Hall, Ep 371 - You Can't Vote Away Colonialism with Fadhel Kaboub, and Ep 388 - From Theory to Praxis: Lenin's Revolutionary Formula with Breht O'Shea, this episode is the strategic argument those conversations kept circling.

Daniel Tutt is the author of Psychoanalysis and the Politics of the Family and How to Read Like a Parasite. His writing has been featured in Jacobin, Current Affairs, Philosophy Now and Aeon Magazine. He is the host of the Emancipations podcast and study group collective. Find him on Twitter @TuttReal or his Substack: https://danieltutt.substack.com/about
C. Derick Varn is an author, poet, and educator, and host of the podcast Varn Vlog, where he publishes podcasts and series on the great thinkers, and interviews authors and academics. He is the author of Apocalyptics and Liberation and All That Bright Etc. He has been a union rep for the past six years. Find him on Twitter @TheRealVarnVlog or his podcast https://varnvlog.buzzsprout.com/

This week, Hamza Hamouchene returns to the podcast to talk about Towards Palestinian Liberation: Global Perspectives on Anti-Colonial Resistance and Solidarity, the new collection he co-edited with Abi Bae. Palestine, he argues, cannot be understood simply as a “conflict” or humanitarian crisis, but as a national liberation struggle against settler colonialism embedded in a larger system of Western imperialism and global capitalism.
Hamza traces Israel’s role within the imperial order, the class interests of Arab ruling elites, and the political economy of occupation and dispossession. Drawing connections to Algeria, Vietnam, South Africa, and other anti-colonial struggles, he emphasizes the revolutionary potential of international solidarity and the necessity of connecting struggles against colonialism, capitalism, and imperialism.
Steve brings MMT into the discussion, arguing that an analysis of real resources is incomplete without confronting the imperial power and violence through which those resources are controlled. The conversation ultimately points beyond solidarity with Palestine toward a larger project of liberation. As Hamza wraps it up:
“We need to be in solidarity with movements that are fighting for their rights, fighting against land grabs, against extractivism, against neocolonial plunder. Be with the Palestinians in their struggle for liberation. Because what we want, Steve, is not just a liberated Palestine. We want a liberated Palestine in a liberated world.”Too often, mainstream narratives on Palestine are narrowly focused on Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Solidarity is reduced to a matter of human rights and international law violations. Hamza stands firm in his refusal to treat Palestine as an exception to the global struggle against imperialism.

Dr. Hamza Hamouchene is a London-based Algerian researcher-activist, commentator and a founding member of Algeria Solidarity Campaign (ASC), Environmental Justice North Africa (EJNA) and the North African Food Sovereignty Network (Siyada). He is currently the Arab region Programme Coordinator at the Transnational Institute (TNI). His work is focused on issues of extractivism, resources, land and food sovereignty as well as climate, environmental, and energy justice in the Arab region. He is the author/editor of five books: “Towards Palestinian Liberation: Global Perspectives on Anti-Colonial Resistance & Solidarity” (2026), “Dismantling Green Colonialism: Energy and Climate Justice in the Arab Region” (2023), “The Arab Uprisings: A decade of struggles” (2022), “The Struggle for Energy Democracy in the Maghreb” (2017) and The Coming Revolution to North Africa: The Struggle for Climate Justice (2015).