PBM Reform Podcast

In this episode of the PBM Reform Podcast, host Greg Reybold, Vice President and General Counsel at APCI, welcomes Josh Golden, Senior Vice President of Strategy at Judi Health and a nationally recognized voice in Pharmacy Benefit Manager reform.

With more than 20 years of healthcare consulting experience, Golden brings deep expertise in vendor procurement, contract negotiation, plan design, and benefit strategy for large employers, government entities, and unions. Together, Reybold and Golden examine the financial models behind today’s PBM industry and why true transparency remains so difficult for employers, plan sponsors, patients, and pharmacies.

The conversation explores how current PBM arrangements often benefit the PBMs more than the employers paying for coverage or the patients relying on their prescription benefits. Golden explains why auditing PBM contracts, rebate structures, spread pricing, administrative fees, pharmacy networks, and formulary decisions is essential to understanding the real economics of prescription drug benefits.

This episode also addresses a growing concern in healthcare: PBM steering behavior. Are patients being quietly pushed toward specific formularies, specific pharmacies, and restricted networks that operate like closed networks without being clearly disclosed? Reybold and Golden discuss how this behavior can limit patient choice, disadvantage independent pharmacies, and distort the stated goal of lowering drug costs.

The discussion also tackles the role of federal reform efforts, including whether the Appropriations Act represents meaningful PBM accountability or whether it risks becoming another layer in the broader shell game surrounding PBM reform.

Finally, the episode asks one of the most important questions in pharmacy policy today: should PBMs own pharmacies? If vertical integration is promoted as a way to lower drug costs, where is the proof — and who actually benefits?

Transparency, Auditing, and the PBM Shell Game | PBM Reform

Josh Golden is the Senior Vice President of Strategy at Judi Health (a prominent healthcare technology and benefit management firm closely associated with Capital Rx) and a nationally recognized thought leader in Pharmacy Benefit Manager (PBM) reform.

With over 20 years of healthcare consulting experience, Golden specializes in vendor procurement, contract negotiation, and plan design consultation for large employers, government entities, and unions.

Tennessee lawmakers have passed a major pharmacy reform bill aimed at pharmacy benefit managers, or PBMs, by barring companies from owning both a PBM and a pharmacy. The legislation is widely seen as targeting CVS Health, which owns Caremark and operates pharmacies across the state.

Supporters say the bill is designed to curb vertical integration, restore fair competition, and protect independent pharmacies from reimbursement practices they view as harmful to patient access and community pharmacy survival.

CVS has pushed back hard, warning that the new law could force it to shut down its 134 Tennessee pharmacy locations and trigger a legal challenge. The company argues the measure would reduce access for patients and does not directly address broader PBM issues like pricing or formularies.

This Tennessee fight reflects a larger national battle over PBM reform, pharmacy ownership, market power, and the future of prescription drug access.

In this episode, listeners get to know the leadership of the California Pharmacists Association (CPhA), exploring their professional journeys, personal backgrounds, and the experiences that shaped their commitment to advancing the pharmacy profession.

Susan Bonilla, CEO of the California Pharmacists Association, joins Dr. Sean Kim, PharmD, Vice President of Practice & Professional Development at CPhA, to discuss California’s progress in pharmacy benefit manager (PBM) reform. As the largest state in the nation, California continues to play a significant role in shaping policies that strengthen patient access to pharmacy care and improve transparency within the prescription drug supply chain. Bonilla and Kim share insights into the reforms California has achieved, the legislative and regulatory priorities currently underway, and how these efforts may influence PBM reform conversations across the country.

The PBM Reform Podcast is sponsored by the American Pharmacy Cooperative, Inc. (APCI). APCI’s sponsorship supports the production of this program but does not imply affiliation with the individual guests, nor endorsement of the views, opinions, or insights shared by podcast hosts or guests. APCI does not endorse any statements or content discussed on the PBM Reform Podcast or across the Pharmacy Podcast Network. Please reach out to the APCI Communication's team for additional information.

How Kroger does PBM and the future of community pharmacy is clinical encounters.

American Pharmacy Cooperative, Inc. (APCI) called on Congress on Thursday, December 11, 2025 to pass the reintroduced Pharmacists Fight Back Act, two coordinated pieces of federal legislation designed to reform pharmacy benefit manager (PBM) practices.

The Pharmacy Podcast Network provides exclusive coverage of the event held on Capitol Hill.