This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil

Women are often told that working harder is the key to getting ahead. Deliver exceptional results, say yes to every opportunity, support the team, and eventually someone will notice. But for many women, that strategy doesn't lead to promotions—it leads to becoming indispensable in the very role they're trying to outgrow.

In this episode of This Is Woman's Work, Nicole Kalil sits down with Patty Azzarello—author, speaker, business advisor, and former Fortune 500 executive—to unpack the unwritten rules that shape career advancement. Drawing from her own journey from awkward introvert to CEO before the age of 40, Patty shares the lessons she learned about visibility, executive presence, influence, and why competence alone is rarely enough to build a successful career.

In This Episode, Nicole and Patty Discuss:

Why being excellent at your job can actually keep you stuck in it.

The hidden career rules that no one teaches—but everyone is expected to know.

The difference between being busy, being valuable, and being visible.

Why women often take on "office housework" that doesn't advance their careers.

How to identify the work that creates the greatest value for the business.

Practical strategies for saying no without damaging relationships.

Why executive presence is often poorly defined—and how to build it authentically.

How bringing humanity to leadership creates greater influence than trying to be impressive.

Why visibility matters just as much as performance when it comes to promotions.

Simple ways to build relationships with senior leaders and decision-makers.

The power of asking for help as a leadership skill.

Why waiting until you feel ready often keeps you from your biggest opportunities.

How healthy conflict strengthens leadership and decision-making.

The career cost of constantly taking care of everyone else.

This conversation is a wake-up call for anyone who has been told that hard work alone is enough. Patty offers a refreshing, practical perspective on what actually drives career growth—and how to start making those shifts today.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with Patty:

Website: https://pattyazzarello.com/

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pattyazzarello

IG: https://www.instagram.com/pazzarello777/

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We explore a common paradox in this episode (and I’ll be up front that this is one I’ve struggled with for most of my career) – and that is, being a likeable badass.

How can we be both liked as a person and respected for our success? How do we get the recognition, negotiate for our value, and create opportunities without our peers or colleagues seeing us as cold, calculating or selfish? How do we create and leverage power and status as women, if we feel icky about the words power and status?

I don’t have the answers, friend, but I know someone who does.

Alison Fragale is the author of Likeable Badass and the Mary Farley Ames Lee Distinguished Scholar of Organizational Behavior at the Kenan-Flagler Business School. Her work has been published in the most prestigious academic journals in her field, and is featured in prominent media outlets such as The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Financial Times, Boston Globe, and many more. A sought-after keynote speaker and trusted advisor, Alison was introduced to me by Adam Grant, and is here today to help us understand more about power, status, and likeability – and how those things impact our ability to get more of what we want.

A loving reminder that whether or not you’re a working professional, we’re ALL negotiating for the things we want, for what matters most to us.

And whether you’re at work or in your personal relationships, your status matters.

It’s time for us to set aside those limiting mindsets because they aren’t serving us or our people.

You can be and become a likable badass.

Thank you to our sponsors!

Don't wait to teach your kids real-world money skills! Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at Greenlight.com/TIWW.

Go to https://CovePure.com/tiww to get $250 off. Thanks to CovePure for sponsoring this episode!

Connect with Alison:

Website: https://alisonfragale.com/

Subscribe to Alison’s Substack: https://alisonfragale.substack.com

Book: https://www.amazon.com/Likeable-Badass-Women-Success-Deserve/dp/0385549148

Group Coaching Program: https://alisonfragale.com/likeable-badass-accelerator/
An 8-week group coaching program designed to help ambitious women build influence, increase visibility, and earn the recognition they deserve. Enter kalil10 at checkout for your discounted rate.

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Divorce is often portrayed as a battle—one that leaves everyone emotionally exhausted and financially depleted. But what if that's not the only path forward?

In this episode of This Is Woman's Work, Nicole Kalil sits down with Erin Levine, founder and CEO of Hello Divorce, to challenge the common misconceptions surrounding divorce and explore what it actually takes to have a good one. After nearly two decades as a family law attorney, Erin witnessed firsthand how the traditional legal system often creates unnecessary conflict, higher costs, and prolonged emotional distress. That experience inspired her to build a different approach—one that supports people through one of life's biggest transitions with greater clarity, compassion, and confidence.

In This Episode, Nicole and Erin Discuss:

The three legal steps every divorce requires.

Why 95% of divorces are resolved through agreement rather than trial.

Common misconceptions about the divorce process.

State-by-state differences that can significantly impact divorce timelines.

Why divorce should be viewed as a life transition—not just a legal proceeding.

Erin's definition of a "good divorce" and what makes it possible.

Why fear and anger often lead to poor decisions during divorce.

The financial mistakes that frequently cost people thousands of dollars.

The role divorce coaches, mediators, therapists, financial professionals, and real estate experts can play throughout the process.

Practical conversations and ground rules couples can establish before filing for divorce.

Common misconceptions surrounding custody arrangements.

Important considerations when dividing real estate and retirement assets.

Why the end of a marriage doesn't necessarily mean the relationship failed.

Ultimately, the conversation reframes divorce as a process that can be navigated with clarity, dignity, and support rather than conflict.

Thank you to our sponsors!

Don't wait to teach your kids real-world money skills! Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at Greenlight.com/TIWW.

Go to https://CovePure.com/tiww to get $250 off. Thanks to CovePure for sponsoring this episode!

Connect with Erin:

Website: https://hellodivorce.com/

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinlevine/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/hellodivorce

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Spiritual health isn’t about following a specific religion, meditating on a mountaintop, or taking the sacrament (unless you want to do those things). It’s about something deeper—our connection to something greater than ourselves, our capacity for faith, and the hope that carries us through life’s challenges.

Dr. Lisa Miller is a New York Times bestselling author of The Spiritual Child and The Awakened Brain. She’s a professor in the Clinical Psychology Program at Teachers College, Columbia University, and the founder of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute—the first Ivy League graduate program dedicated to the study of spirituality and psychology.

Her groundbreaking research has been published in over 100 peer-reviewed articles, and she’s a sought-after speaker, working with the U.S. military, Fortune 500 companies, schools, and healthcare organizations to integrate spirituality into mental health and leadership.

Spirituality isn’t just a belief system—it’s a proven driver of resilience, purpose, and well-being. In this episode, we dive into:

✔️ How spiritual health impacts mental resilience and emotional well-being

✔️ The neuroscience behind spirituality and how it physically changes the brain

✔️ Why faith—whether in God, the universe, or your inner wisdom—makes you stronger

✔️ Practical ways to nurture your spiritual health (without needing a formal practice)

Because here’s the truth: Whatever created you, lives within you—and that alone makes you inherently valuable, worthy, and powerful.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at Greenlight.com/TIWW. Don't wait to teach your kids real-world money skills!

Go to https://CovePure.com/tiww to get $250 off. Thanks to CovePure for sponsoring this episode!

Connect with Dr. Lisa Miller:

Website: https://www.lisamillerphd.com/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/dr.lisamillerlis

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What if the goal isn't to live longer—but to live better?

In a world obsessed with anti-aging hacks, longevity supplements, biohacking, and looking younger, Dr. Kerry Burnight is offering a radically different perspective. A gerontologist, educator, and author of the New York Times bestselling book JoySpan: The Art and Science of Thriving in Life's Second Half, Dr. Kerry challenges the fear-based messaging that dominates the aging and wellness industries and invites us to focus on something much more meaningful: joy.

In this conversation, Nicole and Dr. Kerry unpack what actually matters when it comes to healthy aging, longevity, purpose, confidence, connection, and fulfillment. They explore why society's obsession with youth may be distracting us from the very things that create a life worth living—and why growing older might be one of the greatest gifts we receive.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

Why the anti-aging industry profits from fear—and how to stop buying into it

The difference between lifespan, healthspan, and Dr. Kerry's concept of "joyspan"

What research says actually improves as we get older

How purpose, meaning, friendship, and connection impact longevity

Why confidence often increases with age

The role of mindset in healthy aging and overall wellbeing

How to overcome internalized ageism and embrace every stage of life

Why joy isn't something you find—it's something you cultivate

Practical ways to focus less on optimization and more on actually enjoying life

Because at the end of the day, a meaningful life isn't built through endless optimization—it's built through the moments, relationships, and experiences that make us glad we're here.

Thank you to our sponsors!

Elevate your summer wardrobe: Go to Quince.com/tiww for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns!

Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at Greenlight.com/TIWW. Don't wait to teach your kids real-world money skills!

Go to https://CovePure.com/tiww to get $250 off. Thanks to CovePure for sponsoring this episode!

Connect with Kerry:

Book: https://drkerryburnight.com/joyspan

IG: https://www.instagram.com/the_gerontologist/

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