Messy Social Work

What happens when the strategies that helped us survive become the very things that stop us from being seen?
In this deeply moving conversation, Sharon shares her extraordinary life story: the disappearance of her mother when she was a child, growing up amid uncertainty and loss, caring for a brother she fiercely loved, navigating addiction within her family, and facing grief that defies easy words.
Together, we explore survival, identity, belonging, and the cost of always being the one who holds everything together. Sharon reflects on the "persona" she created to cope, the painful questions left unanswered, and what it means to begin discovering who you are when your life has been spent caring for everyone else.
This is a conversation about loss, resilience, love, and learning that you deserve the same compassion you offer to others.

In this episode of Messy Social Work, Tim and Rich begin with a conversation about shame, connection, and the ways we "make our own social worlds". Reflecting on Margaret Wheatley's work, they explore how small acts of openness can shape relationships, meetings, and everyday interactions.
They are then joined by Jordel Bennett, fatherhood advocate, trainer, family group decision-making facilitator and lived-experience practitioner. Drawing on his experience growing up in London as a Black Caribbean man, becoming a young father, studying law, and supporting fathers navigating child protection and family court processes, Jordel offers a powerful perspective on how fathers experience helping systems.
Together they discuss:
Why fathers are often treated as an "add-on" rather than a core part of family life
Trust, risk and why some fathers find it difficult to engage with professionals
The difference between being child-focused and case-focused
How social workers can build stronger relationships with fathers and paternal families
The role of family networks, identity and belonging in children's lives
The importance of curiosity, humanity and inclusive practice
The episode concludes with a reading from Rainer Maria Rilke's Letters to a Young Poet, reflecting on fear, sadness and the possibility that what troubles us most may be asking for understanding rather than avoidance.
"Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
A thoughtful conversation about fathers, relationships, participation, and what more inclusive social work might look like.

What is social work really for?
In this special episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Dr Beverly Barnett-Jones MBE, one of the most influential voices in British social work, for a conversation that spans personal history, political activism, healing, community, and the future of the profession.
Beverly reflects on how her experiences as a child growing up in a kinship arrangement, her identity as a Black British woman of Windrush heritage, and decades of frontline and leadership experience shaped her approach as a social worker, advocate, and what she describes as a "caring disruptor."
Together, the conversation explores the work of social work pioneer Bertha Capen Reynolds, whose writing on power, poverty, dignity, and community still feels startlingly relevant today. They discuss social work's relationship with activism, the dangers of dependency narratives, the importance of walking alongside families, and whether social workers should see themselves as witnesses, healers, or agents of social change.
Along the way, Beverly speaks candidly about therapy, faith, forgiveness, racial inequality, professional power, and her growing conviction that communities themselves must play a greater role in shaping the systems that affect their children and families.
This is a rich, thoughtful conversation about social work's past, present and future, and a reminder that some of the most important work happens not in offices or procedures, but at the crossroads of ordinary life.
Topics include:
Bertha Capen Reynolds and Social Work and Social Living
Social work as activism and advocacy
Race, identity and the care system
Healing, therapy, faith and forgiveness
Power, dependency and professional authority
Co-production and community leadership
What it means to truly walk alongside families
“You can't be a witness unless you do something.” – Beverly Barnett-Jones

In this special 100th episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich Devine and Tim Fisher hit pause to reflect on the journey so far. Armed with a list of 100 AI-generated questions inspired by their previous episodes, they take each other on a whistle-stop tour through five years of conversations, debates, learning, and occasional technical disasters.
Together they explore what they've learned from speaking with academics, practitioners, people with lived experience, and thought leaders from across and beyond social work. They discuss the limits of concepts such as trauma-informed practice, the importance of professional curiosity, systemic thinking, humility, relationships, and the enduring complexity of child protection work.
Along the way, they revisit some of their most memorable guests, reflect on how the podcast has evolved, share what drives each other slightly mad, and wrestle with one of the biggest questions of all: what is social work actually for?
Part celebration, part stocktake, and part conversation between two friends who have spent 100 episodes thinking out loud together, this episode offers a candid glimpse behind the scenes of the podcast and the ideas that continue to shape it.
Thank you to everyone who has listened, contributed, challenged, shared, and joined us for the journey so far.

In this episode of This Is Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim are joined once again by care-experienced advocate, project worker and Churchill Fellow, Terri-Anne Hamer.
Terri-Anne shares insights from her Churchill Fellowship research exploring how we break intergenerational cycles of child removal. From Denmark to Jamaica, her travels challenged assumptions and revealed a surprisingly consistent message: while services matter, what often makes the greatest difference is belonging, community and meaningful relationships.
Together, they explore care experience, loneliness, identity, parenting, and the courage required to challenge patterns passed down through generations. Terri-Anne reflects on the role of her own "village" in helping her build a different future for her children, and makes a compelling case for support that extends beyond childhood and into adulthood.
Along the way, the conversation touches on relational leadership, the unseen work of relationships, internalised shame, and why breaking cycles is rarely something people achieve alone.
A thoughtful, moving and hopeful discussion about what becomes possible when we stop asking, "What's wrong with people?" and start asking, "Who stands alongside them?"
Topics discussed:
Breaking intergenerational cycles of child removal
Care experience and parenting
The Churchill Fellowship journey
Relational practice and relational activism
Loneliness, belonging and community
The importance of "the village"
Supporting care-experienced adults
Leadership, systems and creating the conditions for change
"If it takes a village to raise a child, why does the village disappear when that child becomes an adult?" - Terri-Anne Hamer