The Non-Billable Podcast

In this episode, we sit down with Ria Karnik, who leads the associate recruitment team in London at Major, Lindsey & Africa, to unpack what’s really happening in the City talent market, and why the associate level has become the key battleground. Ria shares a recruiter’s-eye view of how US firms have reshaped hiring in London, where demand is strongest right now, and why mid-level lawyers are more sought after than ever.
We get into which practice areas are driving growth - from private equity, leveraged finance and private credit through to litigation, tax and competition - and how US firms are quietly building out fuller-service London offices. Ria also explains how partner moves are feeding through to associate hiring, and why firms with a clear strategy and specialism are winning the war for talent.
The conversation then turns to pay, progression and pressure points. Ria breaks down the reality behind NQ salary headlines, the growing issue of salary bunching at UK firms, and why transparency around pay, bonuses and career paths has become such a differentiator. She also explores how early US firms are now targeting trainees, and what that means for specialisation, training contracts and junior career decisions.
Finally, Ria shares practical advice for both lawyers and firms. For associates thinking about a move in 2026, she explains why understanding your motivations, and exploring a few well-chosen options, matters more than chasing a single name. For firms, she sets out what it really takes to attract and retain talent today, from culture and mentoring to clarity on progression and long-term vision.
The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:20 Ria’s legal recruitment experience
02:26 Major, Lindsey & Africa and its global reach
04:19 Where demand for associate talent is strongest
05:50 The practice areas driving hiring in London
09:00 Life beyond US firms – opportunities across the City
10:23 US firms targeting trainees earlier than ever
15:59 Salaries, bonuses and the reality behind the numbers
21:12 What associates really want from their careers
26:10 How law firms can attract and retain top talent
38:29 Ria’s advice for lawyers considering a move in 2026
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

James Hacking and Mike Estill from Kindleworth join the show to unpack one of the more salient shifts in Big Law right now: senior partners leaving large firms to launch specialist practices - and why the market is suddenly making that move feel much more doable.
They explain Kindleworth’s model: helping partners with client followings set up boutique or specialist firms “of their design”, then running the day-to-day operational backbone once the doors are open. The conversation digs into some of the best-known projects they’ve been involved in, including Pallas and the rapid Rosenblatt spin-out, and what those launches reveal about how quickly new firms can be stood up when the right pieces are in place.
A big theme is friction, and how to remove it. Hacking and Estill argue that better access to capital, dramatically improved tech, and a growing pool of partners who don’t fit neatly inside the strategic priorities of ever-bigger global firms. They talk about conflicts in the broad sense - not just classic conflicts of interest, but conflicts of strategy, pricing and business model - and why that opens space for focused firms built around a portable book of business and a clear vision.
The episode also looks ahead: why Burford Capital invested in Kindleworth, what a US expansion could look like, and how technology and outside capital could enable a new breed of “scale specialist” firms. The practical takeaway is simple: if you’ve got the itch to go it alone, don’t be scared of exploring it - because the fastest way to get clarity is to start having the right conversations.
To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:20 Kindleworth Origins & Founder Backgrounds
02:20 What Kindleworth Does & Who It’s For
03:56 High-Profile Launches & the Rosenblatt Rescue
05:17 Burford Capital & Funding Law Firm Spin-Outs
08:08 Why Kindleworth Is Taking the Model to the US
12:11 Why Starting Fresh Beats Fixing Big Law
14:13 Which Practice Areas Are Ripe for Breakaways
18:18 Advice for Partners Thinking of Leaving
26:03 Pricing Pressure, AI & New Firm Economics
38:53 The Upside: Freedom, Ownership & Building Legacy
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

John Quinn is one of the most influential figures in modern Big Law. In this episode, he reflects on how Quinn Emanuel grew from a four-lawyer spin-out in Los Angeles into the world’s leading litigation-only firm - which is constantly rated as the the “most feared” firm.
Quinn explains that the disputes-only model wasn’t fully formed on day one, but became a powerful differentiator once the firm realised that “we do one thing and we think we’re the best at that,” rather than trying to be everything to everybody.
A central theme of the conversation is why specialisation - particularly being willing to act against the world’s largest commercial banks - created an “unmet need in the marketplace” that full-service firms couldn’t fill because of conflicts. Quinn also discusses how that focus helped build internal cohesion: “we’re all litigators,” he says, which avoids the fragmentation he sees inside large full-service partnerships.
Quinn offers a candid comparison between litigation in the US and the UK, from the power of depositions and jury trials to the cost structures and role of regulators like the DOJ. He also shares his perspective on the evolution of Big Law, including rising concentration at the top end, the erosion of lockstep, the growth of non-equity partnerships, and why he thinks the business of law itself “hasn’t changed much,” despite constant talk of transformation.
The episode closes with Quinn’s views on AI, private equity investment in law firms, and what actually makes a great lawyer.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
00:55 On launching Law Disrupted and staying busy
03:38 Founding Quinn Emanuel and the early years
05:02 Why Quinn Emanuel became a litigation only firm
08:14 Suing the banks and finding an unmet market niche
09:40 Opening London before the financial crisis
10:07 Building the world’s largest patent litigation practice
11:51 US vs UK litigation and the power of depositions
16:04 Costs, risk and why US litigation works differently
20:52 How Big Law has changed and why the strongest firms win
22:23 Why law is a “stupid business” structurally
24:26 Lockstep, partner pay and the rise of superstar compensation
33:14 Private equity, external capital and law firm ownership
35:11 Why AI won’t replace litigators anytime soon
40:26 What makes a great lawyer and why judgment matters most
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Pierson Ferdinand launched in January 2024 in what it says was the largest law firm debut in US history - starting with around 130 partners and growing to more than 270 in under two years. In this episode, co-founders Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand explain the model behind what they call an “AI-native,” fully distributed, partner-only law firm.
They break down how the structure works: no physical offices, every lawyer signs a partnership agreement, and compensation is decided by a formula-based algorithm that updates in real time. Partners keep a far greater share of their billings than in Big Law, with Michael noting that most lawyers who join “earn 2 to 3x what they were earning” at traditional firms. Pay is completely transparent: every partner can see every other partner’s earnings inside the firm’s internal app.
A big part of the model is technology. The firm mandates firm-wide licences for Harvey AI and uses additional tools across the business to automate both back-office processes and junior-level work - something they say they’ve “replaced almost all of” already. AI is now part of standard workflows: summarising due diligence, producing first drafts, organising deal terms and creating client-ready matrices and charts.
Michael and Joel also discuss their London expansion - already more than 20 fee-earners and growing - and their recruitment pitch: a chance to escape the traditional hierarchy, avoid massive infrastructure costs, and build a practice with more autonomy and more upside. “Happy lawyers make better lawyers,” Joel says. “We’ve been purpose-built for people who want something different.”
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:00 Introducing Pierson Ferdinand & the Founders
02:20 How the Firm Launched as the Largest Debut in US History
03:37 Inside the Distributed, Partner-Only Model
04:29 How Partnership, Compensation & the “Pro Algorithm” Work
06:48 Why Remote-First Makes the Economics Work
07:22 Firm vs Partner Clients & How Work Is Shared
08:40 How Matters Are Staffed Without Associates
10:11 Horizontal Integration & Internal Work-Sharing
11:16 The Pitch to Clients: Big-Law Quality at One-Third Less
13:01 The Firm’s AI Strategy - Harvey & Beyond
15:58 Could This Model Work Without AI?
17:13 What Lawyers Want: Frustrations With Traditional Big Law
18:23 London Launch: Practice Areas & Early Momentum
21:14 Competing in London’s Hyper-Competitive Market
22:19 The Pitch to London Laterals
24:17 Can Partners Earn as Much as at Kirkland or Paul Weiss?
27:02 Radical Transparency: Everyone Sees Everyone’s Pay
28:02 The Big Catch - Why This Model Isn’t for Everyone
30:08 Growth Plans for the Next Five Years
31:43 Culture, Community & Why “Happy Lawyers Make Better Lawyers”
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we speak with Simon Leaf - a former Mishcon de Reya partner who has launched Three Points Law, a tech-enabled boutique focused on technology, sport and commercial/IP work alongside fellow former Mishcon lawyer Tom Murray.
After 15 years in Big Law, Simon left to build a firm that uses AI from day one and is structured for the kind of fast, high-volume commercial work he handles.
Simon explains why the traditional model no longer fits. As his hourly rate rose and teams grew around him, he felt further from clients and constrained by incentives tied to billable hours. At Three Points, he’s leaning into value-driven pricing and using AI to cut out most junior-level work so he and co-founder Tom can stay close to clients and move faster.
He shares how the firm is using Legora and other AI tools across the workflow - from business development and fee proposals to standardised contract review processes. The tech isn’t perfect, he says, but in the hands of experienced lawyers it’s powerful enough that he’s “100%” confident it replaces the need for junior hires. The early traction has been strong enough that they’re already recruiting senior lawyers instead.
Simon also breaks down the mechanics of starting a modern boutique: partnering with Excello for back-office and regulatory support, avoiding external capital to stay client-focused, and building a culture where he can do high-quality work without the pressures of Big Law. His advice to others thinking of making the leap? If you have the relationships and the appetite to do things differently, “go for it.”
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:00 Simon’s Background
01:56 Why Three Points Law?
03:09 Life at Mishcon & Leading the Sports Group
03:46 Inside Premier League Player Contracts
06:23 Why Big Law No Longer Fit
09:10 The Billable Hour Problem
10:58 Going All-In on AI from Day One
13:23 How AI Replaces Junior Work
16:23 Moving Away from the Billable Hour
19:12 Why Human Lawyers Still Matter
20:18 Will More Boutiques Break Away?
21:58 Three Points’ Vision and Culture
23:18 How They Set Up the Firm
27:41 Advice for Aspiring Boutique Founders
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk