How I built Definely: ex-Freshfields lawyer Nnamdi Emelifeonwu on building one of the UK’s fastest-growing tech companies
In this episode, we speak with Nnamdi Emelifeonwu, a former Freshfields associate and now co-founder of Definely - one of the UK’s most exciting legal tech companies. Nnamdi traces his journey building a legal career at a Magic Circle firm and ultimately leaving it all behind to solve a problem he first encountered while working alongside his visually impaired colleague Feargus MacDaeid who would become his co-founder.Nnamdi shares the story of how he and Feargus turned an initial prototype into a Microsoft Word plug-in - and eventually a fast-growing platform now used by over 100 corporate customers like BT and JPMorgan, and law firm giants including A&O Shearman, Cravath and Milbank.He discusses the steep learning curve of becoming a founder without a technical background, the early product iterations and how the startup found its first champions at firms like A&O and clients like Deloitte. He also opens up about the realities of startup life: fundraising, cash flow pressure, making hiring mistakes, and learning to let go of perfectionism - particularly as a lawyer-turned-founder.With Definely now backed by $7 million in Series A funding from Octopus Ventures and expanding into the US, Nnamdi reflects on the changing role of lawyers in the age of AI and why the future of the profession depends on embracing legal tech. He also offers candid advice for lawyers considering a move into entrepreneurship, including the importance of resilience, self-belief and maintaining a growth mindset.Chapters00:45 Journey into Law: Early Influences and Aspirations03:29 Training at Freshfields: The Big Law Experience06:23 The Birth of Definely: Identifying a Problem09:29 Building the First Prototype: A Solution for Accessibility12:38 From Idea to Startup: The Entrepreneurial Leap15:26 Securing Initial Funding: The First Angel Investment18:38 Developing the Product: Iteration and Feedback21:35 Gaining Traction: Signing First Customers23:34 Navigating Early Challenges: Building Relationships with Clients26:25 Leveraging Legal Expertise: Understanding User Needs29:57 The Importance of Fundraising in Entrepreneurship34:36 Shifting Mindsets: From Lawyer to Entrepreneur36:55 Evolution of the Product: From Definitions to Comprehensive Solutions39:20 Business Model and Customer Base: Focusing on B2B42:21 Growth Metrics and Future Vision44:18 Navigating Competition in Legal Tech49:02 The Role of AI in the Future of Law52:49 Challenges and Advice for Transitioning to Legal Tech55:40 Learning from Mistakes: Hiring and Industry InsightsAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/
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How to win the commercial law game: ex-RPC boss Jonathan Watmough on leadership, strategy and why most lawyers miss the point
This is a conversation with Jonathan Watmough. Jonathan became managing partner of City firm RPC at just 38. Over the next decade, he repositioned it through the global financial crisis, a shifting legal market and the rise of aggressive lateral hiring. He stepped down in 2016, and has since worn several hats: performance coach, consultant and most recently, non-executive chair of the newly independent litigation specialist Rosenblatt.He recently published ‘How to Thrive in a Commercial Law Firm’, a book gaining traction among mid-career lawyers and law firm leaders and which is all about helping lawyers make the most of their careers. In this conversation, Jonathan shares his journey from an accidental lawyer to a managing partner at RPC, discussing the challenges and opportunities within the legal profession. He emphasises the importance of differentiation, leadership, and understanding client needs. He also highlights the significance of emotional intelligence and relationship-building in achieving success in law. He provides insights from his book, and offers practical advice for junior lawyers on navigating their careers and finding their fit within the world of commercial law.Chapters00:40 Introduction to Jonathan 03:42 The Accidental Lawyer06:31 Navigating the Legal Landscape09:29 Opportunities in Crisis12:35 Leadership Lessons from RPC15:37 Role at Rosenblatt and Lessons for Listed Firms18:47 The Future of Law Firms21:38 Insights from 'How to Thrive in a Commercial Law Firm'32:53 The Importance of Commercial Awareness in Law40:12 Transitioning from Lawyer to Business Person47:22 Work-Life Balance in Legal Careers55:17 Future Client Needs and Career AdviceAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/
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What lawyers really want from AI: ex-Freshfields lawyer turned legal tech leader on what we’re getting wrong
Today, we speak with Jack Shepherd. Jack started out as a restructuring lawyer at Freshfields before moving into legal tech via the firm’s in-house innovation team. He now works at iManage - the US-based legal tech company behind the document management system used by most major law firms.Jack is a well-known voice in the legal tech space and a regular speaker at industry conferences. He often takes a refreshingly contrarian view on AI - not for the sake of it, but because, having been a practising lawyer, he actually understands how lawyers work day-to-day.In this conversation, Jack shares insights on the evolving landscape of legal AI and technology. He discusses his transition from practising law to working in legal tech, emphasising the importance of understanding the pain points of lawyers and how technology can address these issues. Jack critiques the current hype around AI, advocating for a more practical approach that focuses on enhancing the legal profession rather than replacing it. He also highlights the significance of project management skills in law, the ROI of legal AI tools and offers advice for lawyers looking to transition into legal tech. The discussion ends with thoughts on future-proofing legal careers and the traits of successful junior lawyers.Chapters00:50 From Lawyer to Legal Tech 03:33 Understanding Legal AI: Current Landscape06:20 The Role of AI in Legal Work09:25 AI's Impact on Junior Lawyers12:19 Identifying Pain Points in Legal Practice15:25 The Future of Law Firms and SaaS18:40 iManage: Revolutionising Document Management27:46 Cultural Challenges in Legal Tech Adoption28:27 Understanding ROI in Legal AI Tools31:18 Strategic Technology Procurement in Law Firms34:41 The Role of AI in Law Firm Marketing36:38 Innovative Legal AI Tools to Watch40:19 Future-Proofing Legal Careers40:43 Advice for Lawyers Transitioning to Legal Tech44:08 Traits of Successful Lawyers49:25 Recommended Reads for Legal ProfessionalsAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/
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The City law partner who hit breaking point and is now leading the fight against burnout in the legal industry
This is our conversation with Richard Martin, a former partner at law firms including Jones Day and Speechly Bircham, who, after experiencing severe burnout and a mental health crisis while he was at the peak of his powers, has dedicated his career to improving mental well-being in the legal industry.Now leading the Mindful Business Charter (MBC), Richard advocates for healthier working practices in law firms and corporate environments.Richard shares his story, we discuss the state of mental health in the legal industry, which firms are doing good work to address the issue, some advice for lawyers feeling like they’re nearing burnout and how the Mindful Business Charter is tackling the issueChapters00:40 Introduction to Richard and His Journey03:43 The Impact of Stress and Mental Health in Law06:10 Personal Experience with Mental Health Challenges09:10 Transitioning to Mental Health Advocacy12:10 Understanding the Legal Profession's Mental Health Landscape15:15 The Role of Personality Traits in Lawyer Burnout18:05 Current State of Mental Health Awareness in Law Firms21:20 The Mindful Business Charter Explained24:10 Challenges in Implementing Mental Health Initiatives27:10 The Future of Mental Health in the Legal Profession29:20 Understanding Client Expectations and Lawyer Responsiveness34:10 The Role of Well-Being in Legal Practice38:42 Balancing High Performance and Employee Well-Being39:50 Navigating Burnout and Career Satisfaction45:12 Advice for Junior Lawyers and Career OwnershipAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/
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How AI is reshaping Big Law - and why firms can’t afford to wait, with ex-Ashurst digital chief
In this episode, we talk with Tara Waters. Tara is a leading voice in legal tech and a lawyer with more than 15 years’ experience at City firms including A&O, Simmons and Ashurst where she was a partner and chief digital officer - during which time she successfully rolled out AI tool Harvey to all of the firm’s 4,000+ lawyers and business services staff around the world.Tara shares her unique journey from technology to law, highlighting her experiences in legal tech and innovation. She discusses the evolution of legal services, the impact of generative AI, how law firms should assess its ROI and her favourite AI tools on the market.Tara emphasises the importance of adapting to new technologies, the need for investment in learning and development,and the traits that distinguish great lawyers. She also provides insights into the future of the billable hour model.Chapters00:30 Introduction to Tara and Her Journey03:034 Transition from Technology to Law06:20 Building a Diverse Legal Practice09:33 Innovation in Legal Services at Ashurst12:33 Client-Driven Changes in Legal Tech14:55 The Evolution of Legal Tech and AI18:11 Generative AI's Impact on Legal Work21:05 The Role of AI Assistants in Legal Practice23:50 Harvey: A Case Study in Legal AI Implementation27:08 Internal Adoption of AI Tools at Ashurst30:40 Elevating Voices: The Importance of User Stories30:58 Gaining Partner Buy-In for Technology Investments33:20 Measuring ROI: Beyond Cost Savings36:02 The Evolving Role of Lawyers in the Age of AI39:36 Rethinking the Billable Hour Model43:24 Legal AI Tools: Preferences and Industry Trends48:02 Leading Firms in Legal Tech Innovation49:31 Career Advice: Confidence and Continuous Learning54:48 Investing in Learning and Development56:40 The Value of Knowing When to PivotAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/
The Non-Billable Podcast takes UK legal professionals beyond the billable hour, bringing you interviews with top lawyers, law firm leaders, industry experts and legal tech innovators to uncover actionable insights on the business of law, career growth and the future of the industry.
Hosted by Oliver Attinger, a former finance lawyer at a leading City law firm with in-house experience at an investment bank - now asking the questions he wished he had when he was practising.
Brought to you by Non-Billable, the go-to newsletter for City lawyers, in-house counsel, and legal professionals.
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