The Non-Billable Podcast

In this episode, David Nicol, headhunter and co-head of Marsden’s US practice, breaks down the structure of the US legal market and how it has evolved over the past decade.
From the dominance of New York as the global dealmaking hub to the distinct identities of markets like California, Texas and Chicago, he explains why the US is far more complex and fragmented than many outside it assume.
The conversation explores the rise of firms like Kirkland & Ellis and Latham & Watkins, and how they have reshaped the traditional hierarchy once dominated by Wall Street white shoe firms.
We also get into the economics of the top end of the market, including partner pay, the realities of the lateral market and what it takes to attract and retain elite rainmakers. Nicol explains why compensation structures, client demands and platform capabilities all play a role in driving partner moves.
Finally, the discussion looks ahead to what could shape the next phase of the US legal market, from the continued growth of private capital and restructuring work to the potential impact of AI on law firm economics and structure.
The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/
Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
02:40 Understanding the US legal market structure
04:39 Why New York still dominates global Big Law
07:07 California, Texas and the rise of regional powerhouses
12:30 Boston, Chicago and DC: key secondary markets
16:33 Magic Circle firms in the US: what’s working and what’s not
23:07 Partner pay and the $30M rainmaker reality
28:19 Lateral moves, Wachtell and shifting firm models
32:02 Kirkland, AI and what comes next for Big Law
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Isabel Parker, chief innovation officer at White & Case, joins the podcast to talk about what it takes to drive innovation inside a global law firm. A former Freshfields lawyer and Deloitte partner, she shares how her career evolved from practice into leading transformation at one of the world’s largest firms.
She explains why innovation isn’t just about technology, even in the age of AI. The real challenge, she says, is time and mindset - getting lawyers to see tools like AI as part of their core role, not something delivered by a separate team. Her goal is to shift ownership of innovation to lawyers themselves.
We also get into White & Case’s AI strategy, including the build of its in-house platform Atlas and its broader approach. Parker makes the case for developing internal capability alongside adopting best-in-class tools, particularly in such a fast-moving market.
Finally, she shares her views on what will actually differentiate firms going forward - not the tools themselves, but how quickly firms can upskill their people and make better use of their data. And for individual lawyers, the key skill is simple: disciplined curiosity.
The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/
Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
02:30 From Freshfields lawyer to innovation leader
04:37 Lessons from Deloitte and working closer to clients
06:39 What a Chief Innovation Officer actually does
08:59 Why time and mindset are the biggest barriers to innovation
11:56 Culture, experimentation and the lawyer mindset
14:59 White & Case’s AI strategy and building Atlas
17:56 Build vs buy vs partner: making the right AI bets
23:51 What will differentiate law firms in the AI era
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

John Hutchinson, managing partner of top 100 law firm Broadfield, joins the podcast to discuss the firm’s transformation from BDB Pitmans into a tech-enabled, internationally focused mid-market player.
He explains the thinking behind the rebrand and the partnership with SHP, a subsidiary of Alvarez & Marsal, designed to support investment in technology, talent and global expansion.
He outlines how that relationship works in practice, with Broadfield remaining independent but gaining access to infrastructure, strategic insight and tools like Harvey. The goal is to build a more integrated, end-to-end platform for delivering legal services, while improving efficiency and client value.
Hutchinson also shares his perspective on private equity in law, arguing it works for some firms but isn’t the only model. Broadfield is instead focused on long-term growth, international reach and more "sensible pricing", moving beyond simply increasing hourly rates.
Looking ahead, the firm is targeting expansion across Europe and the the Middle East, with a focus on private capital and cross-border work. Hutchinson says success in today’s market will come down to combining technology, talent and a clear value proposition for clients.
The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/
Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
02:40 From BDB Pitmans to Broadfield: the rebrand and strategy shift
06:18 The Alvarez & Marsal connection and tech-driven model
09:55 Private equity in law firms: opportunity and limits
14:12 Building an international platform: US, Hong Kong and beyond
17:43 The mid-market squeeze and rethinking pricing models
22:09 AI, Harvey and the impact on law firm economics
24:21 Leadership, culture and managing rapid change
27:25 Hiring strategy and attracting the next generation of partners
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Pierre Proner is the CEO and co-founder of Lawhive. He joins the podcast to explain how his company is combining AI with a regulated law firm model to rethink consumer legal services. He shares how Lawhive pivoted from initially offering software to law firms, driven by a mission to improve access to legal help and reduce the inefficiencies in how consumer law is delivered.
He discusses why selling software to traditional firms only went so far, with resistance tied to billable hours and legacy models. That led Lawhive to become a law firm itself, building an end-to-end AI operating system that supports everything from client intake to drafting and back-office work, with lawyers staying firmly “in the loop”.
The episode also breaks down how the model works across markets. In the UK, Lawhive uses a consultancy-style platform, while in the US it operates through an Arizona ABS and a co-counsel network. Proner says the tech can significantly increase lawyer productivity and earnings by reducing non-billable work.
Finally, he talks about growth. With over $100 million raised, Lawhive is now focused on scaling in the US through expansion and acquisitions, aiming to build a global consumer law firm powered by AI.
The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/
Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:20 From fintech to legal tech: the origin of Lawhive
03:41 Building an AI operating system for consumer law
06:19 Why selling software to law firms wasn’t enough
07:47 Becoming a regulated law firm and changing the model
10:03 Inside the Lawhive platform: AI across the full workflow
13:05 Productivity gains, margins and lawyer economics
17:05 UK vs US: consultancy model and co-counsel expansion
21:06 Funding, US growth and the ambition to build a global consumer law firm
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Ropes & Gray has been quietly rolling out one of the most ambitious European growth strategies among US firms in London. In this episode, London managing partner Rohan Massey and antitrust partner Ruchit Patel, who also sits on the firm’s governing policy committee, join the show to discuss how the firm has grown its London office from a two-partner launch in 2010 into a 250-person hub.
We talk about the firm’s push across Europe, including the recent launches in Paris and Milan, and why Ropes sees London as the centre of a broader European platform. Patel explains how the strategy is driven primarily by client demand - particularly from private capital clients - and why the firm has chosen to build a single integrated European platform rather than operate offices as separate profit centres.
The conversation also explores the competitive dynamics of the London market, where US firms have dramatically expanded over the past decade. Massey and Patel discuss how Ropes thinks about talent, lateral hiring and institutionalising client relationships, including why the firm emphasises collaboration across offices and practice groups.
Finally, we get into one of the firm’s more unusual strategic choices: sticking with a single-tier, all-equity partnership while much of the legal industry moves towards multi-tier structures.
The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/
Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:44 The origins and growth of Ropes & Gray’s London office
04:31 The rise of US law firms in London
05:43 Ropes & Gray’s European private capital strategy
09:57 Paris and Milan: the firm’s newest growth engines
11:30 Why Ropes believes collaboration is its competitive edge
14:45 Talent, lateral hiring and building the partnership
17:47 Institutionalising client relationships across the firm
20:08 Why Ropes is sticking with a single-tier equity partnership
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk