Theology in the Raw

What does the Bible really mean by modesty, and why have Christian conversations about clothing so often produced shame, especially for women and teenage girls?

Dr. Sandra Richter is a renown biblical scholar, author, and professor of Old Testament at Westmont College. The 2nd edition of her killer book, The Epic of Eden, releases in November 2026. Sandy is also a faithful mom, and one of her daughters, Noël Tsoukalas, joins us in this conversation about modesty. Noël is a Pop singer-songwriter and worship leader. She made a name for herself on Season 21 of American Idol, where she received a golden ticket and three “yeses” from celebrity judges Katy Perry, Lionel Richie, and Luke Bryan. Check out her music on Spotify!

00:00:00 “Your Outfit Is Causing My Husband to Stumble”
00:06:55 Sandy & Noel on Modesty and Purity Culture
00:12:50 How the Church Has Mishandled Modesty
00:18:10 Sandy’s Experience with Christian Dress Codes
00:21:26 When Modesty Culture Makes Girls’ Bodies “Public Property”
00:27:21 The Billy Graham Rule and Women in Church Leadership
00:32:21 What Does Biblical Modesty Actually Look Like?
00:36:18 Body Shaming and Modesty in the Church
00:38:26 Teaching Girls to Set Boundaries with Church Leaders
00:42:51 Should Churches Have Dress Codes?
00:51:26 Body Types and the Subjectivity of Modesty
00:53:36 What Does Modesty Look Like for Men?
00:56:28 Biblical Modesty Is About More Than Sexuality
00:59:12 Double Standards for Men and Women at Christian Camps
01:01:41 How Should Christian Camps Handle Swimsuit Dress Codes?
01:06:15 Does Modesty Culture Discourage Women from Ministry?
01:08:30 Social Media, Body Image, and Female Musicians
01:11:30 Healing from Shame Around Modesty and Purity Culture
01:14:05 Who Should Talk to Women About Their Clothing?
01:15:20 Forrest Frank and Cory Asbury make the internet stumble
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Colleen Ramser is an EMDR-certified licensed professional counselor (LPC) who specializes in trauma, particularly the effects of spiritual abuse, domestic abuse, and complex trauma. She’s a survivor of spiritual trauma, which she talks about in the show, and she’s the author of the book The Shattered Soul: Restoring Wholeness and Rebuilding Your Faith After Spiritual Trauma, which addresses a lot of the things we discuss in this fasciainating conversation.

00:00 Why Spiritual Trauma Can Make Faith Feel Impossible
00:30 Introduction
02:52 What Qualifies as Trauma?
05:49 Trauma vs. PTSD
07:46 Resilience, Support, and Post-Traumatic Growth
17:06 What Is Spiritual Trauma?
21:00 Colleen’s Experience with Spiritual Abuse
31:18 Signs and Symptoms of Spiritual Trauma
32:48 How Spiritual Trauma Affects Pastors and Church Leaders
39:14 Recognizing and Treating Spiritual Trauma
41:20 Healing Trauma and Rebuilding Your Faith
46:06 Complex Spiritual Trauma vs. Theological Disagreement
49:46 Is the Term “Spiritual Abuse” Overused?
57:30 Are Churches Getting Better at Addressing Abuse?
63:24 Jesus, Power, and the Fruit of the Spirit
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To listen to or watch our extra innings conversation, become a member of the Theology in the Raw community at https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw.

Dr Sandra Glahn has spend more than a quarter of a century working as a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary. She's the cofounder of the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity and the author of more than 25 books--her latest being A Woman's Place Is in the Story. In this episode, we discuss several women in the Old Testament and how the biblical narrator frames their stories. In our "extra innings" conversation, we discuss the question: "What do Egalitarians and Complementarians get wrong about the women in leadership debate."

00:00:00 Introduction
00:02:56 How Biblical Narrators Shape the Story
00:04:39 Word Repetition in the Bible: Why It Matters
00:05:29 Tamar in Genesis 38: Hero or Villain?
00:11:32 Are All Women in the Bible Meant to Be Role Models?
00:12:08 Judah and Tamar: A Biblical Character Transformation
00:16:44 Shiphrah and Puah: The Midwives Who Defied Pharaoh
00:21:05 Why Every Christian Should Know Shiphrah and Puah
00:22:17 Did Moses Challenge Patriarchy in the Old Testament?
00:29:57 Abigail in 1 Samuel: Wisdom, Courage, and Leadership
00:36:34 Was Ancient Israel Really a Patriarchy?
00:39:51 Elisha and the Shunammite Woman: A Surprising Biblical Story
00:43:17 Job's Daughters and Women's Inheritance Rights
00:48:15 Why Reading the Full Biblical Story Changes Everything
00:50:10 Jezebel: Justice, Power, and the Biblical Narrative
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Max Lucado is a pastor with decades of ministry experience and one of the most bestselling Christian authors of all time, who’s written more than 40 books that have sold around 150 million copies and have been translated in 56 languages. His latest book is Unbreakable Courage: Strong Faith in an Age of Anxiety, Chaos, and Exhaustion.

Chapters
00:07:42 Revisiting 2020: Covid and BLM
00:13:30 The Backlash to Max “Going Woke”
00:16:41 Responding to Generational Pain with Compassion
00:20:55 Tips for Good Writing
00:25:56 The Impact of AI on Writing
00:27:58 AI, Plagiarism and Christian Integrity
00:35:21 Is the World Really Getting Worse?
00:40:11 Over Exposure to Negative Information in the World
00:43:54 What Elijah Can Teach us about navigating the chaos of our world
00:49:01 How God Can Meet us in Our Isolation
00:51:19 Battling with Sinful Thoughts
00:54:09 Was Ahab Elijah’s Enemy?
00:55:07 Elijah Was Human: Hope for Ordinary Christians
00:56:54 Does Prayer Accomplish Anything?
01:00:31 Does Prayer Really Change Anything?
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Max Lucado is a pastor with decades of ministry experience and one of the most bestselling Christian authors of all time, who’s written more than 40 books that have sold around 150 million copies and have been translated in 56 languages. His latest book is Unbreakable Courage: Strong Faith in an Age of Anxiety, Chaos, and Exhaustion.

Chapters
00:07:42 Revisiting 2020: Covid and BLM
00:13:30 The Backlash to Max “Going Woke”
00:16:41 Responding to Generational Pain with Compassion
00:20:55 Tips for Good Writing
00:25:56 The Impact of AI on Writing
00:27:58 AI, Plagiarism and Christian Integrity
00:35:21 Is the World Really Getting Worse?
00:40:11 Over Exposure to Negative Information in the World
00:43:54 What Elijah Can Teach us about navigating the chaos of our world
00:49:01 How God Can Meet us in Our Isolation
00:51:19 Battling with Sinful Thoughts
00:54:09 Was Ahab Elijah’s Enemy?
00:55:07 Elijah Was Human: Hope for Ordinary Christians
00:56:54 Does Prayer Accomplish Anything?
01:00:31 Does Prayer Really Change Anything?
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.