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Value Investing with Legends

Columbia Business School
Value Investing with Legends
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  • Seth Klarman - Contrarian Investing, Discipline, and Building Baupost
    In this episode, host Michael Mauboussin sits down with Seth Klarman, CEO and portfolio manager of The Baupost Group. One of the most influential practitioners of value investing, Seth shares his formative stories — from arbitraging coins as a kid to launching Baupost in 1982 — and reflects on his decades-long investment philosophy. They explore timeless principles of market inefficiencies, the importance of temperament, specialization versus generalization, the role of patient capital, and the challenges and opportunities ahead for investors in today’s world. Seth also opens up about technology trends like AI, the evolving market structure, and the enduring lessons from Graham & Dodd — and much more!   Key Topics: Seth’s early entrepreneurial ventures and coin arbitrage (2:10) Lessons from working at Mutual Shares with Max Heine and Michael Price (4:12) Starting Baupost and managing the founding families’ wealth (10:53) Core principles behind value investing and market inefficiencies (13:06) The impact of indexing, ETFs, and passive investing trends (16:42) Generalists vs. specialists in investment research (19:06) How Baupost evaluates opportunities across asset classes (21:13) Why value investing combines a contrarian streak with a calculator (23:51) The importance of meeting management teams and assessing intent (26:44) Building and educating a long-term oriented client base (29:06) Managing behavioral biases and fostering the right temperament (31:21) Current market outlook and where Baupost sees value today (34:03) How AI is changing research and efficiency at Baupost (36:54) Broader applications of the “Moneyball” mindset (40:13) The difference between an analyst and a portfolio manager (44:01) Seth’s views on risk, business ethics, and business education (45:50) What worries Seth about the future — and what excites him (48:11) Book recommendations from Seth Klarman (51:42) And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: Margin of Safety by Seth Klarman Security Analysis by Benjamin Graham & David Dodd (Seventh Edition) Moneyball by Michael Lewis Lost & Found by Kathryn Schulz Being Wrong by Kathryn Schulz The Light Eaters by Zoë Schlanger   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  • Kent Daniel — From Physics to Finance: Exploring Market Inefficiencies
    In this episode of Value Investing with Legends, Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin sit down with Kent Daniel, Professor of Finance at Columbia Business School, to discuss his journey from physics at Caltech to leading research in behavioral finance and quantitative investing. Kent shares insights from his academic work and his years at Goldman Sachs, including his critiques of the Fama-French model, the role of intangible information in asset prices, and the implications of short selling constraints. The conversation spans decades of market evolution, empirical challenges, and the behavioral patterns that continue to shape financial theory and practice.     Key Topics: ● Introduction by Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin (0:00) ● Introduction of guest Kent Daniel and his academic and professional background (0:48) ● Kent shares his early life, education at Caltech, and influences like Richard Feynman (3:31) ● Transition from physics to finance, MBA at UCLA, and entry into PhD program (5:46) ● Kent's dissertation on time variation in asset returns and statistical test power (8:02) ● Discussion on behavioral vs. rational explanations for return predictability (11:51) ● Kent's time at University of Chicago during the rise of behavioral finance (15:18) ● Challenge to the Fama-French three-factor model with characteristics vs. covariances paper (22:40) ● Behavioral finance classic: Overreaction and underreaction explained through psychology (27:31) ● Discussion on tangible vs. intangible information in financial markets (36:04) ● Current research on short selling, borrow costs, and market inefficiencies (41:40) ● Kent's experience at Goldman Sachs and practical application of academic research (50:02) ● Reflections on the quant crisis and build-up of leverage pre-2008 (56:26) ● Discussion on value investing post-2008 and limitations of book-to-market (57:00) ● Kent’s nuanced view on market efficiency and the role of frictions (1:02:16) ● Views on indexing, ETFs, and financial market design (1:06:11)  ● Kent shares what excites and worries him about the future of markets (1:08:09) ● Kent's current reading and listening recommendations (1:10:07) And much more!   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  • Cliff Asness — Quant Origins, Value Crashes, and Market Inefficiencies
    In this episode, Cliff Asness joins Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin for a conversation that spans the evolution of quantitative investing, lessons from market crises, and the enduring tension between risk and behavioral explanations in finance. From his formative years at the University of Chicago under Gene Fama to building AQR into a quant powerhouse, Cliff reflects candidly on theory, performance, and how markets may have become less efficient in recent years.   Key Topics: Tano and Michael return from sabbatical and reflect on recent academic and classroom experiences (0:00) Overview of Cliff’s career and contributions to quant investing and academic finance (1:13) Cliff recounts his underachiever label, how standardized tests changed his path, and why he chose Penn’s M&T program (2:54) How Cliff’s coding work for Andy Lo inspired his academic path and led to Chicago (5:03) A breakdown of the 1992 and 1993 Fama-French papers, and how they reshaped asset pricing (8:45) Cliff discusses the theoretical divide between Fama and Thaler and his own evolution toward a behavioral perspective (13:08) Memories of presenting momentum to Fama, intellectual honesty, and voice-shaking dissertation defenses (17:13) Why Cliff chose Goldman over academia, his role in developing Goldman’s quant group, and the influence of LTCM (22:00) Launching in August 1998 during the Russia default; early drawdowns and lessons from the tech bubble (27:50) How quant signals hold up, risks of crowding, and the difference between short-term and long-term capacity (34:32) Momentum held, but value strategies collapsed. How AQR dealt with long underperformance (43:31) Valuation starting points can obscure long-term performance; recent decades viewed in proper context (49:22) Cliff's provocative “Less Efficient Market Hypothesis” and three key drivers: indexing, interest rates, and social media (50:54) Is passive investing weakening price discovery? Reflections on Sharp’s arithmetic and Grossman-Stiglitz (54:12) How echo chambers and meme stocks challenge traditional models of rational price formation (58:28) Why companies aren’t issuing more equity despite sky-high valuations, and the fading role of smart capital allocators (1:00:46)And much more! Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  • Phil Ruvinsky - Sustainable Competitive Advantages in Technology
    In this episode, Michael Mauboussin, adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, hosts Phil Ruvinsky, Managing Director and Head of the Fundamental U.S. Growth Team at BlackRock. With extensive experience in the investment industry, Phil shares his journey from law to finance, discusses his investment philosophy, and explains the importance of sustainable competitive advantages. The conversation explores the evaluation of management, the impact of AI on the competitive landscape, and the nuances of portfolio construction. Phil also highlights the role of macroeconomic factors and regulatory changes in investment decisions, shares his thoughts on the future of active management in an increasingly indexed market, and much more! Key Topics: Introduction to Phil's career and background (1:06) Transition from law to investment and early career challenges (2:15) Importance of business school in shaping investment philosophy (3:47) Recommended books for new team members (4:22) Utilizing competitive strategy analysis in investment decisions (5:50) Unique characteristics of technology, media, and telecom sectors (7:03) Analysis of return on invested capital in different business models (9:10) Approaches to valuation and use of different tools (10:25) Evaluating the importance of management in investment decisions (12:15) Impact of AI and generative AI on the competitive landscape (14:17) Application of AI in the investment process (18:07) Trends in market concentration and their implications (20:26) Effects of indexing and rules-based investing on markets (23:27) Corporate governance, capital allocation, and executive compensation (25:35) Differences between being an analyst and a portfolio manager (28:02) Portfolio construction and risk management (29:38) Considering macroeconomic factors in investment decisions (32:00) Concerns and excitement about the future (34:21) Phil's book recommendations (35:58) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode:   Digital Empires: The Global Battle to Regulate Technology by Anu Bradford Expectations Investing: Reading Stock Prices for Better Returns by Michael Mauboussin Competition Demystified: A Radically Simplified Approach to Business Strategy by Bruce Greenwald The Platform Delusion: Who Wins and Who Loses in the Age of Tech Titans by Jonathan Nee Napoleon Unleashed: A History of the Revolutionary, Emperor, and Military Genius who Reshaped Europe and Defined Modern Leadership by Aeon History Meditations by Marcus Aurelius Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts by Annie Duke Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  • Anu Bradford - EU Influence, Big Tech Challenges, and the Future of Digital Governance
    In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Anu Bradford, the Henry L. Moses Professor of Law and International Organization at Columbia Law School, to discuss the intricate dynamics of global technology regulation. Anu is recognized for her deep expertise in international economic law. Her pivotal books "The Brussels Effect" and "Digital Empires" explore how significant regions like the US, EU, and China shape technological standards worldwide. The conversation probes the complexities of regulating big tech companies across different legal and political landscapes, highlighting the significant influence of European regulations on global markets. She also touches on the impact of regulatory practices on innovation, the challenges of enforcing extensive digital laws, and the future trajectory of global tech governance. This episode offers a comprehensive look into the power struggles and cooperative efforts that define international technology regulation and much more!     Key Topics: Introduction to Anu Bradford and her background (04:01) The unique position of the EU in global regulatory practices and its impacts (10:48) Detailed exploration of "The Brussels Effect" and its significance (12:56) Global market influence through regulatory strategies (17:02) The challenges and methodologies of tech regulation in the EU, US, and China (31:55) The role of data security and privacy in international relations and tech regulation (43:06) Future challenges and directions in global technology regulation (52:47) The preservation of liberal democracy in the digital age (54:51) Anu's book recommendations (58:56) And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode:   Digital Empires: The Global Battle to Regulate Technology by Anu Bradford The Brussels Effect: How the European Union Rules the World by Anu Bradford Chip War: The Quest to Dominate the World's Most Critical Technology by Chris Miller Underground Empire: How America Weaponized the World Economy by Henry Farrell and Abraham Newman High Wire: How China Regulates Big Tech and Governs Its Economy by Angela Huyue Zhang     Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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About Value Investing with Legends

Value investing is more than an investment strategy — it’s a fundamental way of thinking about finance. Value investing was developed in the 1920s at Columbia Business School by professors Benjamin Graham and David Dodd, MS ’21. The authors of the classic text, Security Analysis, Graham and Dodd were the very pioneers of their field and their security analysis principles provided the first rational basis for investment decisions. Despite the vast and volatile changes in the economy and securities markets during the last several decades, value investing has proven to be the most successful money management strategy ever developed. Value investors’ success over the second half of the twentieth century proved not only the validity of the value approach, but its preeminence over even the most widely taught and practiced modern investment theory, which was developed in the 1950s and ’60s and remains dominant even today. Our mission today is to promote the study and practice of Graham & Dodd’s original investing principles and to improve investing with world-class education, research, and practitioner-academic dialogue. In this podcast you will hear from some of the world’s greatest investors, their views on the investment management industry, how they developed their investment process and how they see the field changing over time.
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