Better At Work with Cathal Quinlan

Colin Fisher went from touring the world as a jazz trumpet player to becoming one of the leading researchers on group dynamics at UCL. His new book, The Collective Edge, reveals why the structure around your team matters more than the talent inside it.
In this episode, Colin shares the surprising research behind why orchestra musicians are less satisfied than prison guards, introduces the "California Tomorrow" problem for goal-setting, and explains why 93% of leadership teams can't even agree on how many people are on the team.
We also cover: the optimal team size (it's 4.6), how to "relaunch" teams that are stuck, why competition between teammates is playing with fire, and why the best coaches ask questions instead of diagnosing.
Key topics: group dynamics, psychological safety, team composition, goal clarity, conformity vs. creativity, competition, team coaching, relaunches.
Book: The Collective Edge by Colin Fisher (available now)Connect with Colin: colinamfisher.com | @ColinMFisher on LinkedIn, Instagram, X, BlueSky
Subscribe for new episodes every Thursday at 7am.

She left her job for a direct competitor. Six months in, she wants out.

This week's Q&A tackles a listener career dilemma that most of us have lived through — that sinking feeling when your new job isn't what you expected.

Amy's dealing with a culture mismatch, missing processes, and tanking motivation. Cathal and Annette share practical, honest advice drawing from their own career transitions.

Plus, Annette shares her three key takeaways from last week's conversation with Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez on project-driven organisations.

What we cover:→ Why the shock of changing organisations is bigger than we admit→ Finding one friend at work (and why it matters)→ The manager conversation most people never have→ How to protect your personal brand while job hunting→ Annette's sea view analogy — knowing what you need→ Antonio's balanced portfolio approach to projects

Mentioned: "Powered by Projects" by Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez
Next week: Colin Fisher — The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups

Send your career dilemma: betteratwork.net
Connect: @betteratworkpod on Instagram

Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez got fired for trying to bring project management to a top consulting firm.

Today, he's the most published expert on project management in Harvard Business Review and a Thinkers 50 global authority.

His new book "Powered by Projects" makes a bold claim: Every organization is project-driven, but the leaders don't know it.

IN THIS EPISODE:

The Origin Story:
- Almost went professional with Real Madrid (broke his knee)
- Got fired for pitching project management ("too tactical")
- The moment that sparked his mission

Getting HBR to Listen:
- Chased Harvard Business Review for 5 years
- The pitch: "Everyone's a project manager but nobody knows it"
- Became their most published PM expert

COVID Changed Everything:
- 3 days to do what used to take 3 months
- Laser-sharp focus on priorities
- Then we lost all that knowledge

The Project-Driven Organization:
- Shift from operations to transformation
- AI taking over operations; people work on projects
- "Back to normal" doesn't exist

Three Dimensions Framework:
1. Organization (culture, structure, governance)
2. Leadership (prioritization, HR, performance)
3. Value Creation (operations, execution)

Key Examples:
- Haier: Stop projects if no value in 3 months
- Fixed to exponential mindset
- Lean governance (match intensity to risk)

Best Advice:
- Do the hardest thing first every day
- Care about people (Marshall Goldsmith)
- Speak up constructively to leaders

KEY QUOTES:

"Your projects are your future. If you do them wrong, you put your future at risk."

"During COVID we did in 3 days what took 3 months. Then we went back to thousands of projects going nowhere."

"There's no back to normal. Change will happen."

About Antonio:
- Author: "Powered by Projects" & "HBR Project Management Handbook"
- Thinkers 50 ranking (2023, 2025)
- 25 years corporate (PwC, BNP Paribas, GSK)
- Website: antonionietorodriguez.com

Better at Work - Making work better, one conversation at a time.
New episodes every Thursday (+ special Sunday episodes!)

Hosted by Cathal Quinlan & Annette Sloan
betteratwork.net

Q&A episode answering a tough leadership question from Emer, plus Annette's takeaways from Laura Gassner-Otting.

IN THIS EPISODE:

Thank You Email Goes Viral:
Cathal's email praising his daughter's teacher went around the whole school. Miss Smith said "You'd be surprised how little that happens." Why recognition matters more than we think.

Annette's Laura Takeaways:
- The Four Horsemen of Success (money, title, power, prestige) and why we chase them
- The Forces (Calling, Connection, Contribution, Control)
- "Refuse not to be happy now"
- Balance = being yourself everywhere
- Do Laura's quiz

Listener Question: New Leader, Difficult Team Member

Emer started a new leadership role. Most of her team is on board. But one woman has "taken a total dislike" to her. The woman ignores everything Emer says.

Annette's advice:
1. Work as team to agree on values/behaviors (clear is kind)
2. Get to know this person - seek to understand
3. Might be anxiety, trauma, nothing to do with you
4. Build connection and safety

Cathal's advice:
1. Start with YOU - is this about YOUR need for validation?
2. Imposter syndrome from previous org?
3. Ask open questions: "How are you finding it?" "Any concerns?"
4. Discuss ways of working
5. Reality check: She might just be difficult/jealous/wanted the job
6. If intractable after doing the work, she might need to go

Key Insights:

"You'd be surprised how little that happens." - Teacher receiving thank you

"Refuse not to be happy now. Balance is being yourself in work and life." - Annette

"Let's be real. She might be a piece of work. But we try to be fair." - Cathal

Resources:
Laura Gassner-Otting's quiz

Submit your career dilemma: betteratwork.net

Better at Work - Making work better, one conversation at a time.
New episodes every Thursday.

Hosted by Cathal Quinlan & Annette Sloan

Laura Gassner-Otting (Wall Street Journal bestselling author) joins Cathal in the London studio to challenge everything we think we know about success.

This is Laura's UK/Ireland podcast debut, recorded at Christmas after a mulled wine with incredible energy.

IN THIS EPISODE:
The Four Horsemen of Success (and why they drive Laura batty):

1. "I'll be happy when..." - Life is short. Refuse to not be happy NOW.
2. Purpose - Your job doesn't need a white hat to have purpose.
3. Follow your passion - The "live, laugh, love" tattoo of career advice.
4. Balance - We need alignment, not balance. Code-switching is exhausting.

Need to Make vs Want to Make Numbers:
We all have two numbers. Need to make: bills, food, school. Want to make: Claridge's vs Holiday Inn, Rolls Royce vs Hyundai. In between are the sacrifices you'll make.

Caroline's Story:
Laura wanted to promote her to VP. Caroline said no thank you. She'd just had a baby and wanted to be present. Three years later, she got promoted. Still with the firm 10 years after Laura sold it.

Eleanor Roosevelt: "We would worry much less about what other people thought about us if we realised how seldom they did."

Whose Goal Is This?
We define success at 17-18 before our frontal lobe is fully formed. Laura dropped out of law school - it was her fourth grade teacher's goal, not hers. Give yourself grace to change.

Work-Life Alignment > Balance:
You're friends with coworkers on social media. It's already integrated. Stop separating work and life. Find alignment instead. Code-switching is exhausting.

Feeling Seen vs Feeling Loved:
Laura's therapy revelation: She felt loved transactionally (got grades = we love you). But did she feel seen? Could she have said "I don't want law school, I want to be an artist"?

Key Insights:
"I refuse to not be happy NOW. They retire and have heart attacks."

"Follow your passion is the live, laugh, love tattoo of career advice."

"I think we're not too busy. We're too busy doing things that don't matter to us."

"When you find alignment, you just move from one to the other pretty seamlessly."

ABOUT LAURA GASSNER-OTTING:

Author of "Limitless: How to Ignore Everybody, Carve Your Own Path" and "Wonderhell: Why Success Doesn't Feel Like It Should."

20 years as executive recruiter, sold her firm, now speaker/consultant. Regularly on Good Morning America.

Website: lauragassnerotting.com

Submit your career dilemma: betteratwork.net

Better at Work - Making work better, one conversation at a time.
New episodes every Thursday.

Hosted by Cathal Quinlan