What’s Stopping You from Outgrowing Yourself?
Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.
Chief Change Officer isn’t just another podcast. It ranks in the Top 3% glo...
#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three
Part Three of a 3-part series on Josh Drean. Josh has worn many hats—Harvard MBA, psychology grad, co-founder of Work3 Institute and now, co-author of Employment is Dead (Harvard Business Review Press). We’re kicking off 2025 with a bang—by declaring employment dead. Yes, you read that right. Josh Drean is here to dismantle the traditional job market, toss outdated HR policies into the digital abyss, and redefine what it means to work in the modern world.In the Part 1 of a three-part series with Josh, where we dig into why the corporate world’s obsession with employee engagement surveys is as effective as asking your toaster for career advice. Spoiler alert: Most companies don’t actually want honest feedback from employees.Today's Part 3, where we take the conversation even deeper into the new rules of work.Key Highlights of Our Interview:Degrees vs. skills: The battle for relevance – If Josh and Vince, proud Ivy League grads, are questioning the value of degrees, maybe it’s time we all did.Web3, DAOs, and the digital workplace revolution – Why the next wave of companies won’t have middle managers breathing down your neck.What happens to companies that don’t adapt? – Hint: They’ll struggle to attract Gen Z, Gen Alpha, and anyone who doesn’t dream of a soul-sucking 9-to-5._________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Josh Drean_________________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.10 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>130,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.
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#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two
Part Two of a 3-part series on Josh Drean. Josh has worn many hats—Harvard MBA, psychology grad, co-founder of Work3 Institute and now, co-author of Employment is Dead (Harvard Business Review Press). In the Part 1 of a three-part series with Josh, we dug into why the corporate world’s obsession with employee engagement surveys is as effective as asking your toaster for career advice. Spoiler alert: Most companies don’t actually want honest feedback from employees.Here in Part 2, where look deep into the book's journey: how did this provocative and ambitious book come about in the very first place?Key Highlights of Our Interview:A Book Born from a Cold Call“I know this sounds completely random, but do you want to write a book together?” That’s how co-author Deborah Perry Piscione kickstarted Employment is Dead. One unexpected call, a bold idea, and a title sticky enough to catch Harvard Business Review’s attention.The Slow Reality of Publishing in a Fast-Changing World“Can you imagine writing a chapter about a year ago and then having it publish a year later? It’s outdated week to week almost.” While AI and Web3 reshape the workforce at lightning speed, traditional publishing still takes years. To bridge the gap, Josh turned to TikTok, LinkedIn, and YouTube—engaging with audiences in real-time while waiting for the book’s release.A 120-Page Proposal and a Bidding War“Before we knew it, we had 120 pages of this proposal, which was much too long.” What started as an overstuffed pitch ended in a bidding war among publishers. The reason? Josh and Deborah weren’t just talking about changing work culture—they were exposing how outdated employment structures hold workers back._________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Josh Drean_________________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.10 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>130,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.
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#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One
Part One of a 3-part series on Josh Drean. Josh has worn many hats—Harvard MBA, psychology grad, co-founder of Work3 Institute and now, co-author of Employment is Dead (Harvard Business Review Press). We’re kicking off 2025 with a bang—by declaring employment dead. Yes, you read that right. Josh Drean is here to dismantle the traditional job market, toss outdated HR policies into the digital abyss, and redefine what it means to work in the modern world.This is Part 1 of a three-part series with Josh, where we dig into why the corporate world’s obsession with employee engagement surveys is as effective as asking your toaster for career advice. Spoiler alert: Most companies don’t actually want honest feedback from employees.Stay tuned for Part 2, where we take the conversation even deeper into the new rules of work.Key Highlights of Our Interview:Why “people are our greatest asset” is corporate gaslighting – If people were really assets, why are they still an expense on the balance sheet?The future is flexible, but companies are stuck in the past – Why forcing employees back to the office is like making them commute to a typewriter factory._________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Josh Drean_________________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.10 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>130,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.
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#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three
Chris Hare usually helps execs polish their pitches—but now he’s in the hot seat. In this three-part series, we flip the script and unpack the art (and occasional chaos) of storytelling.• Part 1 dives into the world of corporate storytelling—what works, what bombs, and how to not sound like a robot in a boardroom.• Part 2 gets personal—Chris shares stories that shaped him, including a few that left lasting impressions (for better or worse).• Part 3 puts theory into practice—Chris hands us the tools to craft our own stories, and I test them out… possibly with tissues nearby.Key Highlights of Our Interview:The Power of a Reflective Movie Theater Exercise“I have people visualize that movie that plays is actually not the blockbuster. It’s actually your life playing and your career…What might you call that movie?”Beyond the Corporate 360: Finding Stories That Matter“This is not the 360 that many of us from corporate America are used to…the goal here is to go and talk to three to five people who know you, care about you, and want you to succeed.”Feedback as a Double-Edged Sword“People could give feedback that might reinforce the wrong narrative…we just have to be careful and think about them as inputs, not absolute truths.”The Weight of Opinions and Invisible Biases“We unknowingly put more weight on some people’s opinions than others…whether it’s because of the friendship, the level of friendship, or the position they have.”Rewriting Stories with Every Interaction“I’m never telling the same story twice. I’m rewriting the story as I’m telling you based on your face, your facial expressions, your body language, your tone of voice. There are all those factors that play into it that make it incredibly complex.”_____________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Chris Hare______________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.10 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>130,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.
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#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two
Chris Hare usually helps execs polish their pitches—but now he’s in the hot seat. In this three-part series, we flip the script and unpack the art (and occasional chaos) of storytelling.• Part 1 dives into the world of corporate storytelling—what works, what bombs, and how to not sound like a robot in a boardroom.• Part 2 gets personal—Chris shares stories that shaped him, including a few that left lasting impressions (for better or worse).• Part 3 puts theory into practice—Chris hands us the tools to craft our own stories, and I test them out… possibly with tissues nearby.Key Highlights of Our Interview:Rewriting Your Inner Cassette Tape“I find it helpful and more visceral to think about our personal narratives as a cassette tape—a tape that’s playing in our head that we’re constantly writing, rewriting, and adjusting.”Building One Authentic Narrative Across Multiple Worlds“A serial CEO I worked with wanted one narrative that connected his private equity, board roles, and yoga community. The result was an authentic narrative rooted in his true self that could be lensed across different audiences.”Proximity Blinds Us to Our Own Stories"We’re so close to our own narrative and stories that we don’t see the broader picture… if you’re building with Lego, you might not see that there’s a gigantic pile of Lego behind you."Changing the Inputs to Shift the Narrative and Change the Outcome“If you continue to put in the same inputs, things likely won’t change… One of the positive inputs I changed was I got into fly fishing, and that was part of changing those inputs to shift not only the narrative but the outcomes.”The Power of Raw Storytelling"Our stories are not always the really clean, really curated story that makes us look good, but that raw story that has the power to shift the future."_____________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Chris Hare______________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.10 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>130,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.
What’s Stopping You from Outgrowing Yourself?
Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.
Chief Change Officer isn’t just another podcast. It ranks in the Top 3% globally, hit #1 in Careers (US), and cracked the Top 10 in Business (US)—because it offers what others don’t: expansive human intelligence, shared by the world’s most extraordinary thinkers and doers.
This is the space for transformation gurus, bold hearts, black sheep, and unsung visionaries. We go beyond digitized tips and AI-smooth talk. Here, you get real, time-tested, experience-driven wisdom—the kind that blends logic and love, art and science, hindsight and foresight.
For me, this show marks career transition #18. Across 17 transitions, I’ve been mentored by global changemakers who helped me emerge stronger and freer. Now, I’m passing that power forward—through raw, unfiltered conversations with extraordinary people across cultures, industries, and identities.
If you’re a growth progressive, a black horse, a visionary underdog, or someone boldly rewriting the rules—you’re already one of us. Because you are the Chief Change Officer.
Our mission?
To help you become wiser in action, clearer in thought, and more ambitious in motion—so you can outgrow yourself and unlock outcomes beyond imagination or calculation.
A better you is already unfolding.
130,000+ followers are outgrowing.
Join them on LinkedIn, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube @chiefchangeofficer.
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