The IT Experts Podcast

• EP239 – M&A Mastery – Part 3 – How To Buy Another MSP with Ken Roulston & Ian Luckett

  Ken Roulston, a veteran of the IT industry and now self-proclaimed M&A addict, returns to share his deep insights and experience from building a £17 million MSP business through a series of successful acquisitions. Across this episode, we unpack the exact mindset, processes and practical steps MSP owners need to take when considering buying another MSP. Ken’s journey is not just theory, it’s real-world experience gained from multiple acquisitions, integration challenges and building long-term value. And trust me, his perspective is gold.  We kick off the conversation by tackling the question so many MSP owners wrestle with – why would you want to buy another MSP? For many, the idea of borrowing money or taking on risk can feel overwhelming. But Ken reframes this beautifully, explaining that when your objective is to create real business value, something that stands alone and can eventually be sold, you must be willing to embrace a growth mindset and strategic risk. Organic growth has its place, but when you’re looking to significantly scale your revenue, EBITDA and ultimately the value of your MSP, M&A can be the most effective route.  One of Ken’s standout messages is that your business must be in good enough shape to sell before you consider buying. That’s not just about the exit. It’s about having the structure, systems and leadership in place so that you’re investable. If you need to raise funds or secure backing, you’re going to have to ‘sell’ your vision and demonstrate operational excellence to potential lenders or partners. So, getting your house in order is step one.  As we move through the episode, Ken shares powerful guidance on how to actually find the right MSP to buy. This isn’t just about browsing listings with brokers, although they can play a role, but it’s about leveraging networks, building relationships, and even tapping into clever routes like speaking with accountants of potential sellers to warm up a conversation. This is classic Roulston thinking – practical, strategic, and with an eye on long-term alignment.  Once you’ve identified a potential business, the next challenge is due diligence. And here Ken lays out a clear and compelling four-pillar framework that every MSP owner should follow: strategic fit, technical alignment, financial value and cultural compatibility. That last one, culture, is too often overlooked, but as Ken reminds us, it can be the difference between a smooth integration and a complete disaster. Due diligence, especially on the legal and financial side, is not an area to cut corners. Ken strongly recommends using experts where needed and, especially for your first acquisition, working with someone who has been through it before.  Integration is the final hurdle and arguably the most critical. Buying a business is one thing. Making it work long term is another. Ken talks through how to communicate with your new clients and team, manage expectations, and ensure you are seen as a trustworthy, capable new owner. That first 3–6 months post-acquisition is where you earn loyalty or lose it. The 80/20 rule applies here, focus your energy where it counts. Show up for key clients. Reassure your top staff. And most importantly, don’t disappear from your existing business while you do it.  Throughout the episode, Ken Roulston and I also discuss how your role as the business owner must evolve during this process. You will be required to step into a more strategic role, but you can’t do that unless your leadership team is rock solid. This means that scaling through M&A is as much about internal readiness as it is about spotting external opportunities.  As we wrap up this trilogy, Ken shares three final pieces of advice: set a long-term value target for your MSP, be realistic about the size of the business you acquire first and be open to using debt to fund the right deal. With the right plan and guidance, M&A can be the fastest way to grow your MSP and build something truly valuable.  If this episode has got you thinking about your next move, check out the resources at MSPM&A.com, where Ken and our good friend Mark Copeman have put together a treasure trove of insights, including an eight-hour video programme and even a matchmaking service for buyers and sellers.  If you’ve only just joined us for this episode, make sure you go back and catch up on Part 1 – The Foundations and Part 2 – Preparing to Sell Your MSP. They set the groundwork for everything we’ve covered here and are packed with practical insights to help you understand the full M&A journey. Whether you're buying, selling, or just getting your head around what’s possible, these episodes will give you the clarity and confidence to take the next step.  Connect with Ken Roulston on his LinkedIn HERE and learn more about his MSP M&A through their website HERE  Connect on LinkedIn HERE with Ian and also with Stuart by clicking this LINK  And when you’re ready to take the next step in growing your MSP, come and take the Scale with Confidence MSP Mastery Quiz. In just three minutes, you’ll get a 360-degree scan of your MSP and identify the one or two tactics that could help you find more time, engage & align your people and generate more leads.  OR   To join our amazing Facebook Group of over 400 MSPs where we are helping you Scale Up with Confidence, then click HERE  Until next time, look after yourself and I’ll catch up with you soon! 

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• EP238 – M&A Mastery – Part 2 – Preparing to Sell your MSP with Ken Roulston & Ian Luckett

  Ken Roulston brings his decades of industry experience to the table and together we explore what it really takes to get your MSP into a position where it’s not only ready to be sold, but where it attracts the right buyer and achieves a fair valuation.  Ken Roulston has walked the talk. He built his own MSP from the ground up, completed six acquisitions over 12 years and ultimately sold the business in 2023 for a healthy multiple, leaving behind a highly efficient and well-oiled operation. Throughout this episode, Ken shares what truly drives value in an MSP and why EBITDA is king when it comes to valuation. We get into the weeds of what EBITDA really is, the difference between profit, EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA, and how small tweaks in your operation today can make a big difference to your valuation tomorrow.  One of the key takeaways from Ken Roulston in this episode is that profitability is only half the picture. Buyers are also looking at recurring revenue, the quality of contracts with your clients, the efficiency of your operations and how professionally the business is run. We talk about the reality that many MSPs face – thinking their business is worth more than it actually is – and how things like weak client contracts or high client concentration can be red flags to buyers. Ken explains how buyers look for signs of consistency and professionalism, including documented processes, clean accounts, staff contracts and a good track record of customer retention. If your MSP is being run informally or too heavily reliant on you as the owner, that’s going to limit your options when it comes to selling.  We also touch on the age-old debate about outsourced service desks. Is it a red flag for buyers or a smart operational choice? Ken shares how outsourcing can actually be a strategic advantage if done correctly, particularly in a tight labour market where skilled engineers are hard to find. In his case, the buyer saw the outsourced helpdesk as an opportunity and adopted it post-acquisition, demonstrating that the model itself isn’t the issue, it’s how efficiently it runs.  Throughout the conversation, we continue to reinforce the concept of owner not needed. If your MSP can't function without you, it’s not a business. It's a job. And buyers don’t want to buy your job. They want a systemised, well-governed, and self-sustaining business. So whether you’re working five days a week in the weeds or you’ve managed to reduce your time to just one day a week, the goal is to build a business that can stand on its own two feet.  Ken also shares his thoughts on selecting the right buyer, and why it’s not always about choosing the highest bidder. Culture fit matters, especially if there’s an earnout or deferred payment involved. If the acquiring company doesn’t align with your values or runs the business poorly post-acquisition, it could not only damage your legacy but also impact your final payout. We talk openly about deal structures, what buyers are looking for, and the importance of preparation, patience and compromise. Selling an MSP is not a six-week sprint. It’s a strategic process that requires you to get your house in order and present a credible, investable business.  To round off the show, Ken gives us a glimpse into the MSP M&A training course he’s delivering with Mark Copeman, which goes into even more detail than we could cover in this three-part series. There’s also mention of an upcoming confidential matchmaking service for buyers and sellers, which is being developed as part of their wider initiative to support MSPs through this complex journey.  So, if you’re an MSP owner who is thinking about selling in the next year or two, or even if you’re just curious about what your exit could look like, this episode is essential listening. Get ready to take notes, challenge your assumptions and most importantly, take action. M&A is a serious step, but with the right preparation and support, it can be one of the most rewarding chapters in your business journey.  This is the second of three episodes in our M&A Mastery series with Ken Roulston, so if you haven’t already, make sure you catch part one where we lay the groundwork and share Ken’s incredible story. And next week, we’ll be diving into the buying process to wrap up the trilogy with even more insights on what’s happening in the M&A world for MSPs.  Connect with Ken Roulston on his LinkedIn HERE and learn more about his MSP M&A through their website HERE  Connect on LinkedIn HERE with Ian and also with Stuart by clicking this LINK  And when you’re ready to take the next step in growing your MSP, come and take the Scale with Confidence MSP Mastery Quiz. In just three minutes, you’ll get a 360-degree scan of your MSP and identify the one or two tactics that could help you find more time, engage & align your people and generate more leads.  OR   To join our amazing Facebook Group of over 400 MSPs where we are helping you Scale Up with Confidence, then click HERE  Until next time, look after yourself and I’ll catch up with you soon!   

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• EP237 - M&A Mastery – Part 1 – The Foundations with Ken Roulston & Ian Luckett

  To help guide us through it all, I’m joined by someone who’s been there, done it, and got the multiple to prove it, the brilliant Ken Roulston.  Now, if you haven’t come across Ken before, he’s a bit of a legend in the IT channel. He started his MSP from scratch in 2009 and grew it through six strategic acquisitions before selling it in 2023. What I love about Ken is he doesn’t just talk about theory, he’s lived the journey – from finding the right businesses to buy, navigating the risks, right through to a successful exit. And in this first episode, we’re going right back to the beginning and laying the foundations for M&A success.  Ken shares openly about how he got started, including the bold decision to buy his first MSP right in the middle of the 2009 financial crisis. He explains why he chose acquisition over building from the ground up, how he structured the deal, and the mindset he used to keep pushing forward. For anyone who thinks M&A is only for massive corporates or private equity firms, Ken’s story is a real eye-opener.  We explore the idea that, like it or not, every MSP will exit one day. Whether it’s a full sale, a team takeover or an acquisition, at some point you’ll need a plan. Ken talks about the importance of working backwards from your personal goals, being clear on what you want, and starting early to put your business in the right shape. This episode is full of reminders that waiting too long or not preparing properly can seriously limit your options, and your valuation.  We then shift the conversation to the key metrics MSP owners need to focus on if they want to be seen as a valuable business in the M&A world. Ken Roulston highlights two that are non-negotiable. First, at least 70 percent of your revenue needs to come from recurring income. And second, at least 50 percent of that should be labour-based services like support. It’s not enough to be shifting licences. Buyers want to see strong service contracts and retained relationships.  We also talk about profitability. To be taken seriously in M&A, you should be aiming for at least 15 percent EBITDA. Anything under 10 percent means your business probably needs tightening up. Once you hit that 250k profit mark, that’s when you start to attract attention from mid-market buyers. Ken breaks this down beautifully and explains how multiples work, what they mean, and how you can use them to your advantage through something called EBITDA arbitrage which is buying smaller MSPs at a lower multiple and rolling them into a more valuable group.  What stood out to me most in this conversation was Ken’s reminder that integration is the hard bit. Buying is easy. But unless you integrate the new business properly, especially around people and culture, you can lose momentum fast. This is why so many M&A deals fall down after the initial excitement fades. Culture, values and leadership all matter just as much as systems and numbers.  Finally, we introduce the new MSP M&A platform that Ken Roulston has created with Mark Copeman. It’s packed full of tools, training and resources to help MSP owners confidently navigate their M&A journey, whether they’re buying or selling. It’s aligned with everything we believe in at The Growth Hub, clear structure, expert guidance and real-world support.  So, if M&A has been on your mind or even if you just want to get your MSP into a stronger, more scalable position, this episode is the perfect place to start. And make sure you stay tuned for the next two parts in this M&A Mastery series. Next week we’ll be diving into the selling process, then wrapping up in part three with how to approach buying successfully.  Connect with Ken Roulston on his LinkedIn HERE and learn more about his MSP M&A through their website HERE.  Connect on LinkedIn HERE with Ian and also with Stuart by clicking this LINK  And when you’re ready to take the next step in growing your MSP, come and take the Scale with Confidence MSP Mastery Quiz. In just three minutes, you’ll get a 360-degree scan of your MSP and identify the one or two tactics that could help you find more time, engage & align your people and generate more leads.  OR   To join our amazing Facebook Group of over 400 MSPs where we are helping you Scale Up with Confidence, then click HERE  Until next time, look after yourself and I’ll catch up with you soon!

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• EP236 – The State of the IT Channel in 2025 with Greg Jones & Ian Luckett

  We kicked off with a discussion on how the past 12 months have felt for MSPs, and Greg was quick to point out the odd paradox we’re facing. Despite global uncertainty, economic pressures, and geopolitical challenges, the MSP space is actually buoyant. Kaseya itself is growing significantly, and since around 98% of its revenue comes through MSPs, that tells us a lot about the health of the IT channel as a whole. However, while the numbers look good, the reality on the ground isn’t all rosy. Some MSPs are struggling with client churn, budget cuts, and shifting customer expectations. Greg stressed that agility is the superpower in today’s climate. Those MSPs who are able to pivot their message, adapt their offer, and align more closely with the behaviours and values of growth-focused clients are the ones staying ahead.  What really struck a chord was the shift away from the technical ‘what’ of IT and towards the business ‘why’. Greg made it crystal clear that MSPs today need to go beyond just fixing stuff and start solving real business problems. The IT channel is evolving fast, and it’s not enough to simply respond to requests. Clients, particularly those who are scaling and innovating, want MSPs who bring ideas to the table. They want advisors who understand compliance, business process improvement, automation, and yes, even a bit of AI and machine learning where it makes sense. The standout point? Clients are now leaving MSPs not due to bad service, but because their current provider isn’t offering the services, tools, or strategic thinking that they actually need to move forward. That’s a wake-up call for all of us in the IT channel.  We also talked about identifying the right clients. Not just by size or sector, but by mindset. Are they members of a professional body? Do they work with a business coach? Are they investing in growth? Or are they protecting a lifestyle? If it’s the latter, they may not be the right fit for an MSP wanting to scale. Understanding client behaviour, not just industry type, is a big step forward in smart prospecting.  Another major thread that came up was the rise of co-managed IT and the impact of enterprise trends on the SME market. Greg explained that what happens at enterprise level today hits the SME space about 12 to 18 months later. Right now, we’re seeing more demand for compliance as a service, and the margins are strong – around 70% in some cases. The opportunity for MSPs to step into this space, particularly with business-grade solutions that simplify and automate, is huge. It’s not about flogging more tech. It’s about empowering clients to run smarter businesses. That’s what’s going to keep you relevant in the IT channel in 2025 and beyond.  Greg also talked about how younger business leaders are coming through with entirely different expectations. They’re digital natives, want slicker experiences, and have no patience for clunky processes. They expect their MSP to operate like the apps and services they use every day. If you’re not adapting to that, you’ll get left behind. That includes offering flexible communication methods, making contracting simple, and thinking about how you serve clients from their point of view, not yours.  One of my favourite parts of the chat was when Greg spoke about the importance of getting out of your comfort zone. That means attending your client’s industry events, not just IT shows. You’ve got to understand what’s going on in their world if you want to be more than a tech vendor. Greg’s example of “RoofCon” raised a chuckle, but the principle is serious – when you speak your client’s language, you earn their trust.  We wrapped up with a look ahead, and while Greg couldn’t spill the beans on all of Kaseya’s upcoming announcements, it’s clear there’s a lot of innovation on the horizon. But the real excitement came when he talked about the rise in peer groups. Seeing MSPs come together, share knowledge, and improve not just their businesses but their lives – that’s what it’s all about. It’s a reminder that no MSP is perfect. There’s always someone ahead of you and always someone behind. So reach out, get help, and keep evolving.  The IT channel is changing rapidly. If you’re an MSP owner and you’re still just selling IT support, you’re going to get overtaken. But if you pivot, listen to what your clients actually need, and start focusing on business outcomes, there’s a massive opportunity waiting for you.   Connect with Greg Jones on LinkedIn and see what he’s up to by clicking HERE.    Make sure to check out our Ultimate MSP Growth Guide HERE, and remember that the help is out there. You just have to go get it.  Connect on LinkedIn HERE with Ian and also with Stuart by clicking this LINK  And when you’re ready to take the next step in growing your MSP, come and take the Scale with Confidence MSP Mastery Quiz. In just three minutes, you’ll get a 360-degree scan of your MSP and identify the one or two tactics that could help you find more time, engage & align your people and generate more leads.  OR   To join our amazing Facebook Group of over 400 MSPs where we are helping you Scale Up with Confidence, then click HERE  Until next time, look after yourself and I’ll catch up with you soon!   

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• EP235 – Budget Like a Boss with Clare Elliott and Ian Luckett

  Now before you switch off thinking budgeting is just about spreadsheets and cutting back on your coffee spend, think again. Clare Elliott walks us through why budgeting, forecasting and cashflow management are the backbone of every high-performing, profitable MSP. It’s not about being an accountant. It’s about stepping into your CEO role and giving yourself the tools to make better, faster decisions with confidence.  Too often MSPs fall into the trap of looking at what’s in the bank and thinking that’s enough. But as Clare points out, without a proper budget, you’re flying blind. You might have cash now, but do you know what’s around the corner? Are you really in control of your business or just reacting to it? Budgeting allows you to reverse engineer your goals, spot the gaps early and drive the right actions. It’s confronting at times, yes. But the clarity it gives you is worth its weight in gold.  We talked about why so many business owners avoid budgeting altogether. The answer? It’s uncomfortable. It’s time consuming. And it forces you to look reality in the eye. But once you do, as I shared from personal experience, it becomes incredibly empowering. Just like mapping out your retirement plan, creating a budget gives you that sense of control and direction. And as Clare Elliott says so well, it’s all about having a clear destination and a route to get there.  When it comes to forecasting income, we broke down why simply relying on your monthly direct debits isn’t enough. Clare explained how even with recurring revenue, clients leave, services change and prices rise. Without a plan to add new clients or adjust pricing, your business starts moving backwards. So we explored how to break down income forecasting into manageable chunks: from what’s already secured, to potential upsell opportunities, to the leads you haven’t even generated yet. Clare made a really strong point here. If you’re standing still, you’re actually going backwards, especially if you’re not increasing prices annually.  We also got into the nitty gritty of budgeting for costs. From fixed overheads and vendor costs to salaries and project delivery, Clare Elliott laid out the foundations of building a practical budget. The advice was simple but powerful: start with what you know, build in contingency, and always allow for profit and savings. And if you’re not reviewing your projects after delivery, you’re probably leaving money on the table. It’s not just about quoting right the first time. It’s about learning and refining the process with every job.  Another brilliant insight from Clare was how budgeting drives change. Once you know what profit you want at the end of the year, you can work backwards to see what sales are needed and what activity has to happen to get you there. It’s not about hoping. It’s about planning. The budget becomes the engine room of your business, and it’s how you avoid that constant cycle of feast and famine.  We then moved on to how budgeting and forecasting translate into cashflow management. Because let’s face it, profit is great, but cash is king. You can be profitable on paper but still run out of money if clients pay late or vendors need paying early. Clare walked us through the importance of understanding timing, building up cash reserves and planning for VAT, PAYE and corporation tax well in advance. No surprises, no panic, just a clear picture of what’s coming.  We also covered what a typical finance function looks like as an MSP grows. Clare Elliott shared some cracking advice on when to bring in bookkeepers, management accountants or part-time finance directors, and what to expect at each stage of business maturity. Whether you’re turning over half a million or pushing past the seven-figure mark, having the right financial support in place can be a game changer.  We wrapped up with some solid troubleshooting tips for when things go off course. From negotiating with vendors to accelerating debtor collections, Clare gave us a toolkit to lean on in the tough times. But the consistent message throughout was clear: don’t bury your head in the sand. Budgeting is not a punishment. It’s a plan. And it’s the fastest way to create freedom, profit and peace of mind in your MSP.  So if you’re ready to stop winging it and start budgeting like a boss, go back and listen again. Build your first forecast. Book some time with your FD or accountant. Or reach out to us and we’ll help you figure out what steps to take next. As Clare Elliott so rightly put it, if you’re already doing well without a budget, just imagine what you could achieve with one.  Connect on LinkedIn HERE with Ian and also with Stuart by clicking this LINK  And when you’re ready to take the next step in growing your MSP, come and take the Scale with Confidence MSP Mastery Quiz. In just three minutes, you’ll get a 360-degree scan of your MSP and identify the one or two tactics that could help you find more time, engage & align your people and generate more leads.  OR   To join our amazing Facebook Group of over 400 MSPs where we are helping you Scale Up with Confidence, then click HERE  Until next time, look after yourself and I’ll catch up with you soon!   

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