Straight Talking Sustainability

Emma Burlow explores why sustainability professionals shouldn’t spend all their energy trying to refute every piece of misinformation or resistance they encounter.
Brandolini’s Law states that:
“The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.”That imbalance makes endless fact-checking exhausting, and it can hand control of the conversation to the person making the claim.
In this episode
Why misinformation takes far less effort to produce than to refute, introduced at 02:36

The common forms of pushback captured by FLICC:
Fake experts
Logical fallacies
Impossible expectations
Cherry-picking
Conspiracy theories

How to recognize and name the type of resistance you’re hearing at 06:14
The “not me, not like this, not now, and too late” pattern of delay arguments at 09:21
Not me (shifting responsibility)
Not like this (half-measures)
Not now (the downsides)
Too late (giving up)
Why confident pushback can feel like a threat, even when it’s only one person’s unsupported claim at 10:10
Why debating every point can leave the rest of the room remembering the myth, not the correction
How pre-bunking helps people expect misinformation and respond with curiosity instead of confrontation at 12:53
Why repeating a myth, even to correct it, can make it more memorable at 13:48
How naming patterns can take the heat out of difficult conversations at 18:35

Key takeaway
You don’t have to spend all of your energy debunking unsupported claims. Name the pattern, ask what evidence supports it, and give everyone else in the room the skills to stay curious without being dragged down the rabbit hole.
Links:
Brandolini, A. (2013). Original post on X (then Twitter), 11 January 2013.
Lewandowsky, S., Cook, J., Ecker, U. K. H. et al. (2020). The Debunking Handbook 2020. https://sks.to/db2020
Cook, J. (2020). A history of FLICC: the 5 techniques of science denial. Skeptical Science. https://skepticalscience.com/history-FLICC-5-techniques-science-denial.html
Lamb, W. F. et al. (2020). Discourses of climate delay. Global Sustainability, 3, e17. https://doi.org/10.1017/sus.2020.13
Schmid, P. & Betsch, C. (2019). Effective strategies for rebutting science denialism in public discussions. Nature Human Behaviour, 3, 931–939. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-019-0632-4

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Not Sustainable

In this episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, Emma Burlow talks with Rhian Sherrington, founder of the Women in Sustainability Network, about building meaningful professional communities, navigating gender bias, and developing the inner capacity to lead through conflict and uncertainty.
Rhian Sherrington, FRSA, MSc
Rhian Sherrington, Founder and Head Coach, Women in Sustainability Network and Flourish & Lead Community
Rhian is an executive coach and leadership development practitioner who supports women leading sustainability, climate and systems change. She runs group programmes and one-to-one coaching for women in mid-career to senior roles who carry a lot of responsibility, often without the formal authority that should come with it.
She founded the Women in Sustainability Network in 2014, and its community now has a new home in Flourish & Lead, an external development programme for women who want to lead with impact, whether or not sustainability is in their job title. Her approach draws on regenerative leadership, systems thinking and learning in and from nature. She is a Mighty Heart® trainer and a certified C-Me Profile® facilitator, and brings embodied practice and neuroscience into her work.

Why Rhian Sherrington created the Women in Sustainability Network after finding traditional business networking “pretty” salesy and affected by misogyny 02:12.
How the network grew from a Bristol gathering attended by more than 80 people into an international community with online membership 02:55.
What makes networking feel safe, purposeful and less overwhelming, including the importance of facilitation, group dynamics and psychological safety 05:51.
The different layers of connection across the Women in Sustainability Network, including its LinkedIn group of more than 17,000 women and mailing list of around 3,500 people 07:26.
Why women in sustainability can be present in the room yet still struggle to be heard or influence decisions 09:50.
The career impact of unequal access to stretch assignments, senior roles and professional opportunities 11:36.
The launch of Flourish and Lead Community, with pathways focused on confidence and voice, influence in complex systems, and regenerative leadership 15:18.
How nature imagery, seasonal cycles and the lunar cycle will shape the Flourish and Lead community experience 18:14.
What the Mighty Heart programme brings to sustainability professionals, including deep listening, conflict resolution, presence and working with the inner critic 23:17.
Why engaging with grief, anxiety and difficult emotions takes courage, but can change how people show up in the world 26:43.
A practical exercise for identifying and renegotiating the relationship with the inner critic 30:21.
The value of slowing down, listening more intentionally and creating an environment where people feel safe to speak 35:49.
Emma Burlow’s takeaway about making deliberate time for reflection and creating “a clearing” rather than expecting inner work to happen by itself 38:21.

Resources
Women in Sustainability Network: wimsustainability.net
Flourish and Lead Community: flourishandlead.academy
Networking with Purpose guide, available through the Women in Sustainability Network website 06:53

Connect with Rhian on LinkedIn
Join me in the Flourish and Lead Community
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Not Sustainable

When did climate change become awkward to talk about? This episode explores the gap between what people think others believe and what people actually support, arguing that silence can make climate action seem more divisive than it is.
The episode is a spin on the famous Transport for London prompt: see it, say it, sorted.
In this episode
Reflections from the Blue Earth Summit, including an unexpected conference sauna 00:26
Why words like “polarised” and “divisive” have entered the climate conversation 01:53
The gap between public concern about climate change and the noisy minority opposing action 04:07
Why net zero isn’t a purely political or “green” issue 05:02
How green hushing and cautious corporate messaging create a “sea of sameness” 07:57
Why employees take cues from what leaders do and don’t say 09:03
The responsibility of sustainability professionals to challenge silence around climate change 10:39
Moving from “Do I have permission?” to “It’s my responsibility” 11:31
Why stories and conversations may be more effective than repeatedly building the business case 12:11
A practical exercise for revealing how much support for climate action exists in a room 15:09
How sharing knowledge can help people feel informed, confident and empowered 19:38

Key takeaway
Most people care about clean air, nature, food prices and their children’s futures, but many have never been asked. When sustainability professionals spot the silence, start the conversation and share compelling stories, climate action becomes easier to discuss.
“It’s only as divisive as our silence allows it to be.” 21:14Conversation prompts
Where has climate change disappeared from conversations in your organisation?
Are people mistaking loud opposition for widespread disagreement?
What story could you share instead of another target, KPI or statistic?
What would help colleagues feel safer and more confident talking about climate change?

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Not Sustainable

In this episode, Emma Burlow talks with Liv Cropper, transformational coach and host of the podcast Rooted: The Human Side of Sustainability Leadership.
Liv Cropper shares how she moved from 25 years in financial services into coaching sustainability leaders, why she nearly quit a postgraduate sustainability course, and what happens when sustainability work becomes too closely tied to your identity.
In this episode
Moving into sustainability without a traditional science or environmental background
Why transferable skills such as stakeholder management and problem-solving matter
The pressure to collect qualifications and prove your expertise
How perfectionism, people-pleasing and overwork can shape a sustainability career
The emotional cost of being placed on a “sustainability pedestal”
Climate purism, personal choices and the pressure to “walk the talk”
Why disillusionment can follow when your whole identity is invested in work that cannot be solved by one person
How coaching can help sustainability leaders reconnect with their values, strengths and identity outside work
Finding practical, enjoyable and affordable ways to live your values

Key moments
Liv Cropper explains her transition from financial services into coaching after burnout, bereavement and redundancy at 01:25.
Her sustainability career covered operational emissions, Scope 1 and Scope 2, then Scope 3, financed emissions, policy and target-setting at 03:41.
Liv Cropper describes entering sustainability as a generalist rather than a science specialist at 05:18.
She talks about nearly giving up during her postgraduate certificate in Sustainable Business at 10:27.
The idea behind Rooted, focusing on “the human side of sustainability leadership,” comes up at 13:24.
Liv Cropper explains why looking inward is difficult, slow work rather than a quick fix at 15:09.
The conversation turns to perfectionism, people-pleasing and overwork at 17:48.
Liv Cropper describes how sustainability work can intensify existing patterns of overwork when it adds a powerful sense of purpose at 19:23.
The pressure to be a perfect sustainability role model, including around travel, comes into focus at 24:10.
Liv Cropper explains how losing hope can become a turning point in disillusionment at 36:06.
Coaching may reveal that the problem isn’t the sustainability profession itself, but the beliefs and patterns someone brings to their work at 37:38.
The episode closes with a reminder to find sustainability choices that feel possible, enjoyable and affordable at 41:59.

Find out more
Liv Cropper
Search for Rooted Liv Cropper to find the podcast.

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Not Sustainable

The sustainability sector is facing a slowdown, pushback, and political reframing. In this episode, Emma Burlow explains how to stay relevant, find work, and avoid burning out when sustainability knowledge alone no longer sets you apart.
In this episode
Why some sustainability work is being sidelined, rebadged, or called something else 02:59
Why narrowing your niche can lead to more work than presenting yourself as a generalist 04:29
The transferable skills that now matter alongside sustainability expertise 05:57
Why “passion” won’t win you work, and what clients actually need 09:40
How procurement, risk, and other existing skills can become your sustainability advantage 11:47
Why stabilising your workload and energy matters when the sector feels uncertain 13:10
The three pots to protect: profession, obsession, and decompression 14:14

Key takeaways
Niche down around something people need and are willing to pay for.
Build skills in communication, relationship development, analysis, problem-solving, resilience, risk, and leadership for change.
Use your existing professional strengths. “Every job’s a climate job.”
Don’t let sustainability become your entire identity or your only source of energy.
Make room for genuine decompression. Reading another climate book doesn’t count.

“You need to be shit hot at your job.” 10:33“We are no good to our sector exhausted.” 13:22Not Sustainable
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Not Sustainable