Straight Talking Sustainability

In this practical and clarifying solo episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow cuts through net zero jargon by introducing the Five Pillars framework from the Race to Zero campaign's Exponential Business Playbook, giving listeners a step-by-step maturity model that reduces overwhelm, helps organisations identify where they actually sit on the journey (often further ahead than they realise, or sometimes not as advanced as assumed), and provides clear guidance on what comes next without getting lost in complexity.
This framework moves beyond operational emissions housekeeping to explore how net zero becomes genuine business opportunity through model transformation, strategic investment, and influential storytelling that shapes industry direction.
Emma opens by acknowledging the multifaceted nature of sustainability work, noting how last week's mind-blowing episode with Steffi Bednarek on climate psychology contrasts with this week's operational focus, demonstrating that the podcast could run for five years without covering half the relevant territory.
She introduces maturity indexes as powerful tools for reducing overwhelm and establishing current position, having recently worked with food and drink clients in Scotland using maturity frameworks, and previously with the NHS Evergreen Assessment which provides stepped progression models.
The value of maturity frameworks lies in helping organisations understand where to start (a constant question Emma receives), recognising that some clients are far more advanced than they realise (like a hospice industry client working with Emma who has accomplished huge amounts but is not talking about it, missing critical leverage opportunities), whilst others assume more progress than actual implementation warrants.
The Five Pillars framework specifically targets net zero rather than broad sustainability, offering universal applicability regardless of sector or size.
Pillar One: Cut Your Operational Emissions represents the foundation, focusing on Scope 1 and 2 emissions from direct operations (things organisations have control over, including buildings, factories, company fleet, business travel).
Emma emphasises starting with what you know, what you have data on, rather than flying off to complex areas. The steps are simple: set a target (commit to halving emissions by 2030), start cutting emissions, track progress, and begin disclosing. Nothing else initially.
Quick wins include switching to clean electricity, upgrading heating and cooling systems, electrifying vehicles, and reducing unnecessary business flights.
Most organisations can slash significant emission chunks just by tightening up these areas, with the excellent news that this pillar usually saves money through efficiency improvements. This is fundamentally about operational efficiency rather than strategic transformation, making it accessible and financially positive for most organisations.
Pillar Two: Decarbonise Your Value Chain addresses where real emissions sit: Scope 3, everything outside direct control including suppliers, customers, and how products are used.
With 15 Scope 3 categories (not all applicable to every organisation), purchased goods and services represents the major category affecting everyone, alongside transport of goods, professional services spending, and numerous other upstream and downstream activities.
This pillar demands procurement stepping up, requiring sustainability strategies to genuinely reach top suppliers rather than superficial engagement.
Value chain thinking examines both sides: upstream (supply chain) and downstream (customer use, product disposal, entire lifecycle).
Emma stresses that without addressing this pillar,...

In this profound and paradigm-shifting episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow sits down with Steffi Bednarek, Director of the Centre for Climate Psychology and author of Climate Psychology and Change, to challenge one of sustainability's most damaging narratives: that feeling anxious about climate change represents a disorder requiring treatment.
Steffi flips this entirely, asking instead what is wrong with people who do not feel distressed, exploring workplace splitting that forces us to leave our values at the office door, and revealing how psychological frameworks can help sustainability professionals become "systems ninjas" rather than burnt-out martyrs fighting impossible battles alone.
Emma opens by acknowledging she has waited to dive into climate psychology for ages, recognising that the sustainability sector skirts across the top of psychological issues whilst maintaining a compliance-driven "tick this box, write that report, everyone will be fine" approach that fundamentally misunderstands how humans actually work.
The legacy of treating sustainability as purely technical implementation (tell people what they need to know, give them actions, expect compliance) has created an industry-wide blind spot: we are humans who happen to go to work, not rational machines that switch off emotions and values when the working day begins.
Steffi's background spans consulting on social impact for the Council of Europe and large NGOs, working on policy and strategy including UK domestic violence strategy, then training as a psychotherapist specifically to understand change at a deeper level.
Her key insight from therapeutic work: people arriving for therapy typically know exactly what needs to change, have read the books, tried the things, and say "here I am, I need your magic ideas to help me get from A to B." However, as an experienced therapist learns, this is just the story from their stuckness.
Neither client nor therapist will know initially what actually needs to happen to get unstuck; the real exploration begins when you stop accepting the presenting problem at face value.
This therapeutic insight applies directly to organisational sustainability work. Companies employ consultants saying "we need your advice on how to get from A to B," but Steffi works with complexity theory (Dave Snowden and Cynefin framework) which demands stepping back, really listening to what the main narrative does not pay attention to, and discovering that the story revealing itself is often a very different problem than the one initially presented.
The mechanistic paradigm (analyse something, identify what is needed, tell people to do more X) fundamentally fails because we do not live in fragmented contexts; we live in life, which changes constantly and places us in multiple contradicting contexts simultaneously.
Steffi introduces the concept of double binds: we are never just professionals, we are also mothers, friends, daughters, people socialised to believe success is important, children of ideology receiving mixed messages constantly.
Sustainability dialogue treats humans as though we operate in singular contexts, which makes sense during sealed conference events but collapses when people return home to financial worries, partners expecting certain lifestyles, and the recognition that changing careers (perhaps leaving marketing jobs that contribute to overconsumption) might be fundamentally necessary but financially impossible when children have needs.
The conversation tackles the deeply problematic term "climate anxiety," which Steffi fundamentally opposes. The American Psychological Association defines it as heightened distress in relation to climate changes, but using the word "anxiety" immediately places this within clinical context where anxiety is pathologised, treated, medicated, and...

In this essential and clarifying solo episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow demystifies one of sustainability's most intimidating concepts (system change) by walking listeners through a practical framework from Nigel Topping's Race to Zero TED Talk that has been stuck on her office wall for years.
With three simple visual rules (ambition loops, exponential goals, and shared action pathways), Emma transforms system change from an abstract scary concept into actionable strategy that helps businesses set appropriate ambition levels, plan for technological disruption properly, and avoid the painful trap of plowing their furrow solo whilst competitors and supply chains speed ahead together.
The episode centres on a poster featuring three rules for system change that Emma uses when training boards and senior teams to get them out of the weeds, out of rabbit holes, and looking at the bigger picture.
The framework originated from Nigel Topping's TED Talk and consists of three graphics: a Möbius loop representing ambition loops, an upward arrow representing exponential goals (ironically resembling a climate change graph), and three splitting arrows representing shared action pathways. Emma walks through each rule systematically, explaining not just what they mean but how businesses can apply them practically.
Rule One: Harness Ambition Loops are self-reinforcing cycles (like climate feedback loops) that push everyone to move faster when industry, policy, investors, and consumers all rise to the same ambition level.
The Holy Grail of system change occurs when things align like planets: policymakers set clear direction that levels the playing field, the private sector gets on board rather than working in totally different directions, policy incentivises innovation which brings costs down, solutions scale as investors pile in because risk has dropped, cheaper solutions enable consumer adoption, and the loop continues with rising ambition levels.
Emma contrasts this with the experience of disruptive startups (having worked with Revolution Zero for four years plus numerous innovative startups), where it feels like literally pushing water uphill when you are not in an ambition loop.
The critical insight is understanding your landscape: knowing policy changes coming up, aligning with them, working out where your customer sits in the loop (are they even aware of the loop?), and recognising that timing is everything. Many products and businesses fail not because the idea was poor but because timing was wrong (the customer was not aligned, the policy was not aligned).
The EV example illustrates ambition loops perfectly. EVs bumbled along at low adoption for 20 years (Nissan Leaf, Prius) with no policy in place. Once policy was established, EV manufacturers invested rapidly, and the sector moved towards policy targets for adoption.
When the UK government pulled back on EV timelines, the car industry created a "hoo-ha" saying "hang on a minute, you can't pull back now, we've put all this money in." This demonstrated how critical aligned ambition is; breaking the loop after investments have been made creates chaos and represents nearsighted policymaking that undermines the system.
Rule Two: Set Exponential Goals addresses Emma's favourite mistake: picking a net zero date then setting linear goals (reducing emissions by 10% or 15% annually) without understanding how industrial revolutions actually work.
All technology disruption follows an S-curve: slow adverse adoption, then increasing, then doubling until market adoption is reached. This pattern applies to mobile phones, the internet, solar power, AI, and every major technological disruption. We are currently seeing this with solar, electric batteries, and renewable energy globally.
Emma emphasises that setting linear...

In this insightful and energising episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow sits down with Crista Buznea, Head of Sustainability Marketing at Ecologi, to explore how effective communication can transform sustainability from a worthy burden into an engaging, dopamine-filled journey that drives real business action.
With a background spanning tourism marketing at Heathrow and TUI before transitioning into sustainability leadership, Crista brings unique perspective on what actually works when trying to bring sustainability to the masses through authentic storytelling, strategic listening, and remarkably, the occasional use of negative messaging.
Crista's career transformation began during travels through Thailand and Cambodia, where she witnessed the dark side of tourism that her university degree had glamorised: child exploitation, fake orphanages, environmental pollution, and animal welfare issues.
This awakening led her back to university for another degree, then into roles at Heathrow and TUI where she applied marketing skills to sustainability challenges, successfully integrating sustainability into every in-flight entertainment magazine, on-screen content, in travel agencies, and through video campaigns.
Her mission has always been bringing sustainability to the masses, making it accessible rather than corporate, engaging rather than jargon-filled.
When the pandemic eliminated tourism jobs including Crista's, she showed up on LinkedIn every day telling sustainability stories, filming content, and building consistency that ultimately attracted Ecology.
They offered her a platform doing sustainability "very differently to anything I'd ever seen," using gamification and creating what Crista describes as "an environment full of dopamine" that makes sustainability genuinely engaging.
This philosophy challenges the traditional worthy, anxiety-inducing, difficult journey narrative that dominates much sustainability communication, suggesting instead that positive energy and accessible entry points drive far more participation than guilt and complexity.
The conversation centres on Ecologi's latest campaign, "Sustainability Shouldn't Be Unsustainable," which emerged from Crista's social listening at climate conferences and events.
Working with over 24,000 businesses gave her extensive exposure to sustainability leaders' challenges, and she consistently heard paradoxical demands: integrate sustainability on the ground but also be a strategic thinker, speak up but not too loud, don't be afraid of greenwashing but don't be green-hushed either.
The campaign mirrors these tensions back to the industry, acknowledging that sustainability professionals are caught between business objectives and regulatory pressure, between optimistic targets and harsh reality, between spreadsheets and storytelling.
Crista reveals fascinating insights from Ecologi's marketing experiments testing positive versus negative messaging, carrot versus stick approaches. Their weekly "Good News" series generates 20% of weekly engagement, proving positive content works.
However, when testing the same message framed as a barrier versus a motivation, barriers (the stick, the negative framing) perform marginally better.
This counterintuitive finding challenges the sustainability sector's growing emphasis on positivity-only approaches, suggesting that balanced communication acknowledging both challenges and opportunities resonates more authentically than relentless optimism or doom-focused messaging.
The episode explores critical sustainability marketing challenges including AI-generated content that lacks authenticity (easily spotted through overuse of dashes, lists of three, and algorithmic patterns), green-hushing driven by Western political changes and business caution, and the constant need to simplify jargon (carbon...

In this practical and uplifting solo episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow kicks off 2026 with a powerful reframe for sustainability professionals exhausted by negativity, what-aboutism, and constant battles over every small change.
Drawing on groundbreaking research published in Nature Food, Emma demonstrates how clever behind-the-scenes switches can deliver massive carbon reductions (30% in one study) without guilt, arguments, or removing anyone's choices. This episode is essential listening for anyone tired of making sustainability harder than it needs to be.
Emma introduces research by Flynn et al. titled "Dish swap across a weekly menu can deliver health and sustainability gains" that proves something revolutionary: you do not need to start with the hardest stuff, fight people, or remove choice to achieve meaningful carbon reductions.
The researchers worked with a canteen serving 15 dishes across a five-day week, surveying diners' preferences and identifying where high-carbon meat dishes competed with lower-carbon vegetarian options. The problem was simple: when people's favourite vegetarian meal appeared on the same day as their favourite meat dish, they always chose the meat, meaning the vegetarian option never got selected.
The solution was brilliantly simple: reshuffle the menu. Using what they called an optimisation model, the researchers rearranged dishes so high-preference vegetarian meals no longer competed with high-preference meat meals. No recipes changed. No meat-free Mondays. No lectures. No signs. Just a smarter order.
The results were extraordinary: when the optimised menu rolled out, carbon footprint of meal choices dropped 30%, saturated fat dropped 6%, and crucially, no one complained or even noticed. This is what Emma calls "sustainability by stealth" or "Trojan mouse" approaches that deliver real impact without the exhausting battles.
Emma explains why this matters profoundly for sustainability professionals drowning in negativity. Whenever conversations begin about reducing meat consumption or increasing plant-based canteen options, polar reactions emerge: accusations of "banning meat," claims of being a "Scrooge" after the consumerism-filled festive season, or walls of what-aboutism (what about wind turbine blades, range anxiety, plastic recycling rates).
This negativity is not just draining; it actively kills momentum, derails conversations, and leaves sustainability teams fighting uphill battles daily whilst making minimal progress.
The episode tackles why negativity is so prevalent in climate and sustainability conversations, particularly around politically sensitive topics like food, renewable energy, and flying.
Emma identifies three common negative patterns: what-aboutism (endless objections ignoring any reasons something might work), accusations that sustainability means "banning everything" or "penalising us," and the exhausting cycle of needing to prove your case with facts whilst the other side throws up barriers. This approach misses the point entirely and more critically, stops all forward momentum.
Emma introduces the concept that people need to hear things seven times before they will buy them (a classic marketing principle). If those seven exposures are negative, negative, negative, the battle becomes exponentially harder.
The solution is not more facts, bigger business cases, or harder fights. The solution is reframing towards can-dos, easy wins, and low-friction changes that build momentum rather than requiring martyrdom. As Emma puts it: "Momentum beats martyrdom. We don't all have to be martyrs. We don't have to fight it all every day of the week."
The dish swap research proves something powerful about human behaviour and organisational change. Once people experience success (seeing that changes worked without causing pain), they become far more...