The Way Out Is In

• The Eight Realizations of Great Beings – Part Two (Episode #83)

  Welcome to episode 83 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. This installment sees Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication to discuss the Eight Realizations of Great Beings. This ancient Buddhist sutra provides guidance on overcoming suffering, putting an end to misunderstandings and difficulties, and making progress towards or even attaining enlightenment: “leaving behind the world of birth and death, [and] dwelling forever in peace”.In this, the second of two parts, the three contributors explore the last four realizations, which provide a manual for seeing the world with the wisdom needed to deal with suffering and act with clarity. The realizations covered include the awareness that ignorance is the cause of the endless cycle of birth and death, and how bodhisattvas develop their understanding and skillful means; the awareness that poverty (but not only poverty!) can create hatred and anger, and how to practice generosity equally towards friends and enemies; living simply to ‘practice the way’, and the great vow to help all beings and guide them to joy; and more. The discussion emphasizes the importance of grounding Buddhist teachings in real-world realities, cultivating compassion and understanding even for those causing harm, simplifying one’s life, and committing to the bodhisattva path of alleviating the suffering of all beings. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resourcesInterbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing Sister Hien Nghiem (Sister True Dedication)https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem Sutrashttps://plumvillage.org/genre/sutras The Eight Realizations of Great Beings https://www.parallax.org/product/the-eight-realizations-of-great-beings Dharma Talks: ‘Manas Consciousness, Teachings on Buddhist Psychology Retreat, 1997’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/manas-consciousness-thich-nhat-hanh-teachings-on-buddhist-psychology-retreat-1997 Mahayanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana Bodhisattvahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong Martin Luther King Jr.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr. Pema Chödrönhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pema_Ch%C3%B6dr%C3%B6n ‘Recommendation’https://plumvillage.org/articles/recommendation Viktor Franklhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl The Eight Realizations of Great Beings: Essential Buddhist Wisdom for Realizing Your Full Potentialhttps://plumvillage.shop/products/highlighted/new-books/the-eight-realizations-of-great-beings/ Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness Quotes “If love is limitless and love and understanding go together, then understanding must also be limitless.” “Lower your ego, be open, change your attitude in order to receive.” “Where there is life, there is death. Where there is death, there is life.” “A very deep teaching from Thay and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. about the idea of the beloved community, which, in their few brief meetings, they discussed at length: in the ideal beloved community of Dr. King, your enemies are included. Your enemies are included. The ones currently persecuting you are included. This was an important spiritual faith and practice at the time of the Civil Rights Movement. This is the 1960s, our spiritual love should have that capacity to embrace everyone. And that is a spiritual challenge. It starts closer to home, but it really opens up. And that’s a great vision. I find it really spiritually inspiring and challenging. [it] calls me forward.” “My practice is to see everyone as human beings.” “One of the vows of a bodhisattva, of a great being, is to always shine the light of openness, the light that everyone has inside of them: a seed of love and a seed of compassion.” “There are going to be times when we recognize that, ‘Right now, my heart is not the size of the great ocean. It’s literally a puddle.’ If I allow many people to walk around that puddle, it will be stirred up and become very muddy and I can’t be of service. So we have to be able to know our capacity, our limits, and to not feel that this is something to be attained in one day, in one month, in one year, but that it requires a lifetime of cultivation.” “When we are angry, we’re not clear, we’re not compassionate, and we don’t carry out our profession well.” “The past was wrong, we know that. But what can we do now? Starting today, how can we reset this?” “When there’s not enough love around, there’s not enough understanding, everybody feels unsafe; everybody is always on guard. And when we’re on guard, we stop looking at each other as an opportunity for connecting as humanity. It’s just fear.” “One can only overcome anger with kindness. One can only conquer evil with good. One can only win over the miser with generosity. One can only convince the liar with truth.” “True, full, deep Buddhism is grounded in a real awareness of economic realities and economic systems. So, when someone has hatred and anger, there may be many causes and conditions, including poverty. But we don’t blame or punish or condemn people for struggling with that; we bring great compassion and understanding.” “Although you are in the world, try not to be caught up in worldly matters. A monastic, for example, has in their possession only three robes and one bowl. They live simply in order to practice the way. Their precepts keep them free from attachment to worldly things, and they treat everyone equally and with compassion.” “Each day is a chance to contribute good thinking, speech, and action into the world, whether we’re monastic or not.” “The more we consume and the more we think that we can find our happiness in consuming, the more we are destroying the Earth. The more we are climbing over each other for status and fame and power and influence and all these other things, the more, ultimately, we’re creating suffering and exploitation around us. And it’s endless. The consequences of human cravings are that the more we lose ourselves in these sense-pleasures, the less we’re really awake to and aware of the actual, very real, tangible suffering that we are perpetuating upon each other and upon the planet.” “Maybe the most important thing we can do in our life is cultivate the energy of mindfulness, compassion, understanding, and harmony in our lives and relationships.” “We’re all living in this crazy world. And how can we live in the world and not be too shaped and imprinted by it, but instead find our freedom within it and really live in line with our values? I want to put out a rallying call: don’t settle for anything less. Life is so short. Life is so precious. How can we make these choices really intentionally? How do we want to live in a way that’s in line with these values, and what radical choices can we make to put what’s most meaningful and important first?” “Simplicity is a keyword for living simply, leanly, and lightly – not living simply, leanly, and lightly, and then taking loads of photos and posting them on social media and being like, ‘Look at my highly curated simple life.’ That’s not what we’re talking about. It’s how to simplify what we’re doing, what we need, and what we’re in pursuit of in order to show up fully in the moments of our life; to be able to slow down and live this precious life deeply. And that is already an act of resistance.” “The simple moments of life are enough. And I feel that this word ‘simplicity’ is the real takeaway from this realization of how we can bring this quote-unquote monastic awakening into our daily life. And it takes courage because everyone is trying to make it complicated for us, including our loved ones. So it takes real courage to keep it simple.”

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  1:57:33
• The Eight Realizations of Great Beings – Part One (Episode #82)

  Welcome to episode 82 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. This installment sees Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication to discuss the Eight Realizations of Great Beings. This ancient Buddhist sutra provides guidance on overcoming suffering, putting an end to misunderstandings and difficulties, and making progress towards or even attaining enlightenment: “leaving behind the world of birth and death, [and] dwelling forever in peace”.In this, the first of two parts, the three contributors explore the first four realizations, which cover the impermanence of all things, the suffering caused by desire, the tendency of the mind to seek fulfillment outside of itself, and the importance of diligent practice to transform unwholesome mental states. Their conversation also touches upon the relevance of these teachings for modern life and the need for a balanced approach that combines inner work and outward service; the value of community; and a non-judgmental approach to one’s own mind and body as key to the Buddhist path of understanding and love. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/   And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing Sister Hien Nghiem (Sister True Dedication)https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem Sutrashttps://plumvillage.org/genre/sutras The Eight Realizations of Great Beings https://www.parallax.org/product/the-eight-realizations-of-great-beings Dharmakayahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmak%C4%81ya Pali Canonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pali_Canon Parthian Empirehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire Sister Jinahttps://plumvillage.shop/authors/sister-jina-van-hengel/ ‘The Three Dharma Seals’https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/the-three-dharma-seals/ Dharma Talks: ‘The Five Remembrances’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-five-remembrances-sr-thuan-nghiem-spring-retreat-2018-05-17 Brother Phap Linh (Brother Spirit)https://www.instagram.com/brotherspirit Mahayanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana ‘Three Resources Explaining the Plum Village Tradition of Lazy Days’https://plumvillage.app/three-resources-explaining-the-plum-village-tradition-of-lazy-days/Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path Pema Chödrönhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pema_Ch%C3%B6dr%C3%B6n Bodhisattvahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva Quotes “When we talk about non-self in Buddhism, it is to understand that we cannot exist by ourselves. That is non-self in a nutshell.” “Those things we might hold on to as important are also impermanent. In this realization we’re touching both the good news and the challenge: the good news of impermanence and the challenge of impermanence. So those things that are causing great injustice, hardship, suffering, fear, and despair: they are impermanent. That can give us some relief when we really look into the broad scale of things and the broad scale of time. But, also, things we cherish are impermanent. The house that we saved up to build, to renovate, to take care of – where will that house be in two thousand years’ time? In twenty thousand years’ time? We can pour our whole heart into a project – but where will that project be in ten thousand years? And this is an important contemplation, because it’s one of the unlocking keys in Buddhism. Everything is a formation, made of other parts, but we grasp on to and we hold on to these things and we sacrifice our life and our happiness, our present moment, and our relationships chasing after those things, investing in those things – and we lose the wonders of the present moment.” “If you look at the global situation, it can be quite easy to despair. But if you look at your local community and what you can do, that can be very empowering.” “What gets me up and what continues to motivate me is that we are developing and nurturing the continued spiritual tradition that we have received.” “In Buddhism we have this line, ‘The mind is a field to be cultivated.’ There are seeds and we have to take care of the ones that come up as weeds and the ones that will come up as good things that can nourish us.” “You are the guardian of this body; you better be careful how you handle all those impulses, because, left unhandled, they lead to this impulsive, short-sighted behavior which is the root of suffering and injustice in the world. So both our body and mind are something for us to take care of.” “The mind is an organ. It’s an uncultivated organ until we become really familiar with it and learn how to take care of it with a lot of compassion and understanding.” “All hardships in daily life arise from greed and desire. Those with little desire and ambition are able to relax their body and mind, free from entanglement.” “You can lose your practice in your monastic life very easily if there is no deeper desire to have the impact of change, of compassion, of love, and of transformation.” “We’re always picking up what’s going on outside, but often not actually listening at all to what’s going on inside.” “If we generate joy inside of ourselves it naturally flows into the world.” “The fourth realization is the awareness that indolence is an obstacle to practice.” “What I love about Buddhism is that Buddhism loves lists. We often say this. And we also love repetition.” “There are things that we think are important but actually aren’t, and they’re taking our time and energy from a deep pursuit of something inside that can really unlock understanding of suffering, can really unlock insight and help us live a deeper, more meaningful, healing, and loving life.” “The main point here is: guard your mind and feed your mind good things, and apply effort every day, every week.” “The fire of birth and death is raging; this is something we are bearing witness to as humans on this planet. And simply how I consume and take that in is a cultivation of the mind – so I don’t want to have a lazy mind, an indolent mind, when I’m reading the news. It’s not that the news is happening to me.” “When we say that we observe what is happening in the mind, this mere recognition is already a power, because we’re saying, ‘I am more than this thing’.”

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  2:01:45
• Renewal (Episode #81)

  Welcome to episode 81 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. This new installment was recorded before a live audience, in the Stillwater Meditation Hall of Upper Hamlet, Plum Village, in December 2024. In its first section, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino talk about what it means to let go of the past and create a new future. They delve into the Buddhist meanings of renewal, alongside personal reflections on the challenges and achievements of the past year.The conversation also touches on the role of Plum Village in renewing and transmitting Buddhist teachings to new generations; the importance of ‘beginner’s mind’ and the ability to adapt and evolve, both as a community and as individuals.In the second section, the hosts answer questions from the audience on the topic of renewal, such as, ‘What practical strategies can maintain mindfulness and presence in the face of demanding responsibilities?’, and ways to reduce overconsumption. Enjoy! Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong Sister Chan Duchttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-chan-duc Brother Phap Linh (Brother Spirit)https://www.instagram.com/brotherspirit/Sister Hien Nghiem (Sister True Dedication)https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem  ‘The Pebble Meditation’https://plumvillage.org/articles/news/the-pebble-meditation Dharma Talks: ‘Pebble Meditation for Adults’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/pebble-meditation-for-adults-br-phap-huu-spring-retreat-2018-05-13 The Art of Livinghttps://www.parallax.org/product/the-art-of-living/ Mahayanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana Old Path White Cloudshttps://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-clouds/ The Way Out Is In: ‘Feel It to Heal It: The Dharma of Music (Episode #79)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/feel-it-to-heal-it-the-dharma-of-music-episode-79 Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path Bodhicittahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhicitta A Beginners Mind for a Beautiful Future: Dharma Talk by Thich Nhat Hanhhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_F_cxM9d5Q&t=0s Quotes “I die and I am reborn in every moment.” “When I reflect on renewal, it is to be reminded that everything is impermanent. So this moment will be impermanent. I will be alive in the next moment, and it will help me remember that life is constantly flowing. So we are also constantly changing.” “Mindfulness and our practice of dwelling in the present moment allows us to be in touch with the here and now. And it’s different from yesterday. It’s different from what we thought yesterday also. But it’s thanks to what we did yesterday that we have, maybe, a new way of seeing, a new way of being, a new way of listening, a new way of speaking. It is wonderful to know that every moment, therefore, is a new moment. This gives us an opportunity to heal the past. And gives us an opportunity for a new aspiration: to have new hope for oneself and for the world. So renewal is the action of constantly being born and constantly dying.” “As it was falling, the leaf knew that it was not dying. The leaf was very much alive during the spring and the summer. And it contributed everything it could during those seasons. And when the time came for the leaf to, in our language, die and fall, it had no regret. Because the leaf was only returning to the earth, to nurture the earth in order to nourish the tree, which would then produce new leaves when the spring comes. And when we have this insight, there’s no more fear, because we understand this nature of life, this rhythm of life that is coming and going.” “If you don’t touch suffering, then you’re not really practicing right mindfulness.” “One element of our spiritual practice is our responsibility to learn to cultivate joy and happiness in the very here and now, even amidst the pain and suffering of the world.” “Thay called his hut the Sitting Still Hut. He said that when you come to Plum Village and want to be in touch with him, you just need to sit still and you can feel his presence, you can feel the breath that he has transmitted in the very here and now.” “Often, people will practice mindfulness because they want to get from place A to place B in their life – whether it’s a career move or whatever – and the mindfulness is there to help with their concentration and their focus on that. But true mindfulness may lead to you questioning place A in the first place and whether you really want to get to place B.” “Everything we say and do is to enhance the harmony, not the separation. And we even have a vow that when we are emotional, we don’t speak; we wait until our emotions are settled and then speak.” “When we first come to the practice, we feel very encouraged and very hopeful. But if we don’t renew ourselves, that state of mind becomes very stale and we will lose motivation. So, even in our practice, we have to constantly renew ourselves.” “The work in the monasteries is never finished in one lifetime.” “Be beautiful, be yourself.” “Love is stronger than force.” “The Buddha was human, but he was enlightened. We’re all human; we can be enlightened also.” “Every generation needs to renew Buddhism to make it relevant for people living today, because if it’s not relevant, then the teachings will die.” “You are enough.” “The beginner’s mind, in the Zen tradition, is your openness, your willingness to learn, your willingness to relearn, sometimes to unlearn.” “Our way of being able to cultivate inner peace, to transform the bombs and the guns inside of us, the hatred inside of us: that is a gift that we can offer to the present moment and the future generations so that new wars won’t start.”

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  1:34:02
• The Beauty of Imperfection (Episode #80)

  🔔 SENSITIVE CONTENT Disclaimer: The information in this video is not intended to diagnose or treat any mental health condition. If you are in crisis, or in need of immediate assistance, we encourage you to reach out to friends, professionals, and other groups to gain relevant support for your particular situation. Welcome to episode 80 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino talk about how to come home to ourselves, why it can be so difficult for people to feel at home in their own skin and to feel that they are enough, and why people go searching for things outside of themselves in order to feel better about themselves on the inside. The hosts further explore self-love and self-acceptance; compassion; overcoming perfectionism and feelings of inadequacy; redefining beauty; true generosity; dismantling self; the Buddhist teachings on interbeing and dwelling in the present moment; and more. They also share personal experiences and insights from Thich Nhat Hanh’s own journey to inner freedom and stability. The episode concludes with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu. Enjoy! Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing Brother Phap Linh (Brother Spirit)https://www.instagram.com/brotherspirit ‘Three Resources Explaining the Plum Village Tradition of Lazy Days’https://plumvillage.app/three-resources-explaining-the-plum-village-tradition-of-lazy-days/ ‘Thich Nhat Hanh on Discrimination and Complexes’https://plumvillage.app/thich-nhat-hanh-on-discrimination-and-complexes Dharma Talks: ‘What Is the Equality Complex?’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/what-is-the-equality-complex How To: ‘Begin Anew’https://plumvillage.org/articles/begin-anew Dharma Talks: ‘The Five Remembrances’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-five-remembrances-sr-thuan-nghiem-spring-retreat-2018-05-17 The Way Out Is In: ‘Feel It to Heal It: The Dharma of Music (Episode #79)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/feel-it-to-heal-it-the-dharma-of-music-episode-79 The Way Out Is In: ‘Shining Light (Episode #63)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/shining-light-episode-63 Quotes “Where there’s a stillness, the energy of mindfulness is present.” “Thich Nhat Hanh would speak about how, sometimes, we have to expand our mind and expand ourselves to see that our suffering is not ours alone: it is a shared suffering. And, also, when we transform the suffering, it is not only our transformation: it is a transformation for the greater collective. And we don’t discriminate about whether it is a small or a large transformation, because all transformations have an impact on the greater consciousness of our society.” “When we talk about coming home to oneself, that is the whole journey of meditation: dwelling happily in the present moment. It means that, in the present moment, whether there’s a storm, whether it is a moment that is blissful and peaceful, I can be happy. And if there is a moment when there is suffering, like if I am unwell and I’m not experiencing joy and happiness, I can learn to still tap into my happy conditions and be there for this moment. So I can generate happiness in this moment, even in the midst of suffering and pain.” “The word love in Buddhism is very deep; there’s so many layers to it. And a part of love always starts with oneself – like, can we learn to be kinder to ourselves? Can we make ourselves a little bit kinder, so that our home in ourselves is a little bit kinder?” “We, as practitioners, know that we’re not only conditioned from the outer energy, we also have the capacity to condition ourselves. And that is part of the journey of arriving home: starting to redevelop the foundation of our home.” “A lot of people in the West suffer from two negative qualities that really rub up against each other. People suffer from self-loathing and they suffer from perfection. In other words, they don’t like themselves and they’re trying to be perfect – and that combination is pretty catastrophic.” “It takes time to really look at and be honest about what we don’t like about ourselves and where that is coming from. You can’t just tell someone, ‘Well, start loving yourself. What is there not to love?’” “Meditation is a journey where the destination can be reached in every moment. The destination is not in five years, in 10 years, or only reached when I can sit and not move and have no feelings. To erase all feelings and emotions and thinking is not the aim of meditation. It’s learning to ground ourselves, it’s learning to guide our energies and to guide our mind.” “Why is it that we can’t love ourselves? What makes it so difficult to say the word love? But, at the same time, when I say ‘learn to love yourself’, it doesn’t mean that we have to say, ‘Oh, I love me.’ Loving yourself can happen in so many ways. For example, acceptance is love. So, expanding the value of loving oneself is important, like redefining what our values are. It’s like, when I am overwhelmed I know how to take a pause: I go for a walk on the grass; I touch the grass or I go into the forest and I give myself a moment of just relaxation. That’s learning to love yourself.” “People think compassion is very soft or very weak, but part of the journey of coming home is that there has to be the element of compassion. Compassion becomes a foundation that allows us to accept ourselves, to accept the unwholesome actions that we have already performed.” “As we progress on the path of life – not even in terms of meditation – I think that our definition of home continues to evolve and our way of being in the present moment continues to deepen.” “You can only be you with the non-you elements.” “How can we dismantle this concept of self? It has to come into action with the insight of interbeing.” “I was always so captivated by how magnetic our teacher Thay was around the walking meditation, when all the kids would want to hold his hand and sit around him. But he wasn’t saying anything; he was just drinking a cup of tea or walking in silence. And I think the beauty that he was expressing was his way of being: that he could move so freely on this planet, and transform so much of his pain and suffering through what he experienced in life without being caught up in that. But he was walking with steps of freedom in the present moment, not taking for granted that moment of joy, of peace, and of connection.” “For those of us who are young, we are always going to be tackling the question, ‘Am I enough?’ And even those of us who are older – guess what, young people? We still have these questions. But let us collectively transform this, so that what we can transmit to the next generation is, ‘You are enough and your potentials are all there. You just have to water the right seeds.’” “Thay found his home in the midst of fire and fury. He found his home in the midst of being banished from his homeland. Thay found home wherever he was, rather than in a place.” “Your pain is not yours alone.”

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  1:39:02
• Feel It to Heal It: The Dharma of Music (Episode #79)

  Welcome to episode 79 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined by musician/producer Jack Peñate and frequent guest Brother Phap Linh, Dharma teacher/musician. Together, they talk about the release of A Cloud Never Dies, the debut album by the Plum Village Band – a musical meditation on love, continuation, and non-fear, inspired by and dedicated to Thich Nhat Hanh.The album was produced by Jack, with the two monastics joining the conversation as co-creators of the album and representing the Plum Village Band: a collective of Zen Buddhist monks and nuns from Plum Village Monastery, France, plus musician-meditator friends from around the world. In the first part of the episode, the guests discuss their musical journeys, from childhood to this point; the power of music as a portal to share the Dharma; music and Buddhist tradition; making music as a spiritual form; art as a Zen practice; and more.In the second part, they share songs from the album and discuss their origins, meaning, creative process, and production stories. And we get to listen to the discussed songs too. Listen to the album and find out more about it here. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing Jack Peñatehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Pe%C3%B1ate Brother Phap Linh (Brother Spirit)https://www.instagram.com/brotherspiritSister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong  ‘Recommendation’https://plumvillage.org/articles/recommendation Album: A Cloud Never Dieshttps://plumvillage.org/album-a-cloud-never-dies The Way Out Is In: ‘Regeneration and Musical Inspiration: The North American Tour (Episode #53)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/regeneration-and-musical-inspiration-the-north-american-tour-episode-53 Pirates Blendhttps://piratesblend.com/ ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village Aretha Franklinhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aretha_Franklin Billie Holidayhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Holiday Lee ‘Scratch’ Perry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_%22Scratch%22_Perry Narcissus and Goldmundhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_and_GoldmundThe Glass Bead Gamehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Bead_GameHermann Hessehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Hesse Bhagavad Gitahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita Quotes “Music and Zen go together.” “There’s art in making tea and there’s art in life, in the way that we live our days.” “The highest music, the best kind of music, is breathing.” “Everything could become practice. It just depends on our heart and our intention. We feel like we can be very authentic practitioners and teachers of mindfulness and meditation and combine that with playing music, singing, creating. Because our teacher showed us how to do that, and how to be real in the doing of that, to make the music a meditation as well.”“Music not as a performance, but as an invitation to touch the present moment.” “When you know what your path is, you have to completely follow that, and be completely aligned with your intuition and your instinct about that.” “Harmony isn’t something that you’re always in, but it’s something you’re always striving for.”“You deal with the desire for fame by finding a deeper desire, one that’s more important to you. And then you can handle the other one, and the desire for fame looks silly in comparison. That’s a practice that people can do together. And it’s a discipline. And it’s a way of life. And that’s what I love about it. But what I’m interested in is how we get aligned in our purpose and aspiration. And are there things that we can actually do as practices?” “Music as an offering. We’re not doing this to be known, to make money, to be famous, to be successful, to do any of these things. We’re doing it to connect with the suffering that’s in the world, with the struggle that’s in us in relation to that suffering. The struggle of, ‘How do I help?’ When we see the strife, the pain, the killing, the destruction of humans – humans by humans and humans of ecosystems, of the beauty and diversity of the Earth – for me, it’s incredibly painful and there’s a feeling of, ‘How can I respond?’ How can I use what I have to try to help in some way, to alleviate some of the pain, to make things a little bit better for somebody, somewhere? And, as a musician, I do feel that music’s relevant to that somehow.” “I really feel like we can’t make the more beautiful world that our hearts know is possible without music. Music is going to be part of it. Music is going to give us the courage to do it; the fearlessness, the vision. It’s going to help us to keep coming back to our vulnerability, to stay honest with ourselves when we get into pride.” “You have to feel it to heal it. If we don’t feel our pain, then there’s no hope for us to embrace it, to understand it, to transform it, to look deeply into it. So it starts with feeling it. And music, I think, really can get past all of our psychological defenses, our armor, and our intellectual reasons and justifications and explanations and rationalizations; it can cut to the heart of the matter, which is the heart, and take you right there. And suddenly you find yourself feeling things that, maybe, without the music, it wouldn’t feel safe to feel.” “There was no difference, at a certain point, between composing and praying and crying and healing.”

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