Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

What happens when global energy supply chains can no longer be trusted? Has the U.S. given up its edge in the clean energy race to China? And can politics keep up with the speed of the energy transition and the rise of AI?

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with former U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm for a wide-ranging conversation on the future of global energy, politics, and clean technology.

They explore how geopolitical tensions, from disruptions in the Strait of Hormuz to shifting alliances, are reshaping global energy markets and accelerating the move away from fossil fuels. Granholm offers an insider’s perspective on the impact of U.S. policy decisions under both Joe Biden and Donald Trump, including the rise, and partial dismantling, of the Inflation Reduction Act and what that means for US clean energy investment, manufacturing, and competitiveness.

The discussion dives into the growing divide between ‘petrostate; U.S. and ‘electrostate’ China, the global race for dominance in electric vehicles and battery storage (with companies like BYD leading the charge), and the unintended consequences of tariffs and industrial policy.

Looking ahead, Granholm reflects on lessons learned from her time in office, what a future Democratic administration might do differently, and the political and economic challenges shaping the road to the next presidential election 2028: inflation, energy affordability, and the disruptive impact of AI on jobs.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links and more:

What Democrats Can Learn From the Trump Energy Playbook: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-26/jennifer-granholm-democrats-should-use-trump-playbook-for-climate

For Real Energy Dominance, We Need the IRA: https://heatmap.news/ideas/energy-dominance-ira-granholm

Can Data Centres Play Nice With The Grid? Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kSrgRZUCwE

⁠The Future of Clean Tech Under Trump — Ep198: Jigar Shah: https://youtu.be/PCOaF-qQ_TU

Why Renewables Are Booming Despite the Politics | Ep245: Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade: https://youtu.be/5oL_XlZ8k_M

How the US Lost The Race for Clean Energy | Ep 219: Ethan Zindler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQLkLXt9Uek

The news agenda this year has been entirely dominated by energy related stories, whether it's the war in Europe being pursued by Russia — formerly Europe's most significant energy provider — the U.S. capturing the head of state of Venezuela — which has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world — or the ongoing attack by Israel and the U.S. on Iran and all its ramifications.

But there is also another story, which is the long term rift between the U.S. and the rest of the world about whether and how fast we should be addressing climate change.  

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Dr Fatih Birol, executive director of the International Energy Agency, for his third appearance on the podcast. He discusses the International Energy Agency’s integral role in trying to steer the world through the current energy crisis, how he sees the global energy system change in response to the crisis, and how his organisation is facing up to criticism from the US over its net-zero scenarios.

Fatih and Michael discuss:

Why the current crisis could surpass the oil shocks of the 1970s

How the International Energy Agency is helping stabilize global markets  

Efficiency measures and the need to reopen the Strait of Hormuz

Why solar, batteries, and nuclear may surge amid the chaos 

Why countries are looking toward coal to fill the gap

Whether energy security is now overtaking climate as the top priority

The growing divide between the U.S. and global institutions on climate policy

And why Birol insists: “Data always wins.”

As Executive Director of the International Energy Agency, Fatih has positioned the Agency at the centre of global efforts to advance a secure, affordable, and sustainable energy system. Dr Birol joined the IEA in the mid-1990s and progressed from junior analyst to Chief Economist, where he oversaw the flagship World Energy Outlook. 

He has been included in the TIME100 list of the world’s most influential figures and recognised by Forbes as one of the world’s most influential figures in energy. He chairs the World Economic Forum’s Energy Advisory Board and is an honorary life member of Galatasaray Football Club.

This episode was recorded on March 19, 2026.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links and more:

The International Energy Agency: https://www.iea.org/

Sheltering from Oil Shocks report: https://www.iea.org/reports/sheltering-from-oil-shocks

Fatih’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fatih-birol/

The World Energy Outlook 2025: https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2025

Fatih’s past appearance on Cleaning Up

The World's Preeminent Energy Economist - Ep133: Fatih Birol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc7ItnBRqXI

Setting the World's Energy Agenda - Ep28: Fatih Birol – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW5aPlRI44I

How should a central bank respond to energy shocks? Will high oil and gas prices bolster the uptake of renewables? And what is the true cost of net zero 2050?

This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Pierre Wunsch, Governor of the National Bank of Belgium and member of the European Central Bank’s governing council, for a candid, behind-the-scenes discussion about how central banks should and can respond to inflation, energy volatility, and climate transition.

From the recent surge in oil and gas prices to the lessons learned from post-COVID inflation, Wunsch explains why central banks may have “got it wrong” during the Russia-Ukraine energy shock, and how they’re rethinking their response to supply shocks.

Michael and Pierre dive into:

The costs of net zero, and why a one-size fits all approach to decarbonisation isn’t working.

Whether European economies can absorb the costs transition without losing competitiveness

Why “transitory inflation” didn’t stay transitory during the Russia-Ukraine war

The risk of political backlash and policy instability

Why industry, not households, is the hardest part of decarbonisation for Europe

The gap between climate ambition and credible policy tools.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links and more:

Pierre Wunsch bio: https://www.nbb.be/en/cv/pierre-wunsch

National Bank of Belgium’s Research on Climate: https://www.nbb.be/en/publications-research/publications/topics/climate

How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu6giWzTxAY

The 130 Trillion-Dollar Man - Ep84: Mark Carney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtA5ufMzKAU

What happens if we’re underestimating the speed and scale of climate risk? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Ricken Patel, Principal at Climate Hub & Founder of activist network Avaaz, to explore how to build successful climate movements, and the case for research into geoengineering.

Ricken argues that companies have been accidentally geoengineering since the turn of the Industrial Revolution, as a byproduct of their pollution, and says ‘it’s crazy’ that research into deliberate forms of geoengineering isn’t being allowed.

Ricken has a long history as a campaigner and activist working in the climate and democracy spaces. He founded Avaaz, an online activism platform, and led successful campaigns around the Paris Agreement and beyond.  He was voted "Ultimate Gamechanger in Politics" by the Huffington Post, listed among the world's top 100 thinkers by Foreign Policy, and named a Young Global Leader by the World Economic Forum.

Patel studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford, graduating first in his class, and holds a Master's from Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. He went on to live and work on conflict resolution and civilian protection in Sierra Leone, Liberia, Sudan, and Afghanistan for organizations including the International Crisis Group.

Together, Bryony and Ricken dive into:

Why climate risks may be far greater than current models suggest

The cooling effects we’re losing as we clamp down on pollution

The  case for researching geoengineering

How democracy, truth, and climate are deeply intertwined

And how to build a successful movement around climate change.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links and more:

Ricken’s website: https://www.rickenpatel.net/

The Climate Hub: https://www.cc-hub.org

The State of the Climate 2026 | Ep242: Zeke Hausfather: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzySrSD8vz8

Parasol Lost: https://actuaries.org.uk/news-and-media-releases/news-articles/2026/jan/14-jan-26-parasol-lost-recovery-plan-needed/

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Emmanouil Kakaras, engineer, academic, and Senior Advisor at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries EMEA, for a grounded, technical conversation about the intersection of emissions and engineering: gas turbines pushing the limits of thermodynamics, the trade-offs between hydrogen, ammonia, and synthetic fuels, and why carbon capture keeps coming back into the conversation.

Kakaras draws on decades in both academia and industry to explain how decisions actually get made inside large engineering companies, and why the energy transition isn’t about picking a single “winner,” but deploying a mix of solutions at scale.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links and more:

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries: https://www.mhi.com/

Iron-Air Man - Ep144: Mateo Jaramillo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih0gBGCkROM

Cracking the Geothermal Code - Ep58: John Redfern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU8TDupVvjM

The Dane who Harnessed the Wind - Ep139: Henrik Stiesdal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rjuZ_aCsFQ

Ep121: Prof. Rob Miller "Jet-Zero Hero": https://youtu.be/zqMHiyyWlZo

Padeswood CCS: Decarbonizing cement production in the UK https://padeswoodccs.co.uk  

Primetals: A decade of pioneering green steel solutions

Large Heat Pumps and the future of district heating https://spectra.mhi.com/energy-transition/the-untapped-potential-of-district-heating

The geothermal plant behind Europe’s lithium push https://spectra.mhi.com/energy-transition/the-geothermal-plant-behind-europes-lithium-push

What role will ‘new nuclear’ play in the energy transition? https://spectra.mhi.com/energy-transition/what-role-will-new-nuclear-play-in-the-energy-transition