Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

How can we accelerate the transition, and keep the public with us?
Recorded at TED Countdown House at COP31 in Türkiye, Michael Liebreich is joined by TED Countdown founder Lindsay Levin, climate lawyer and entrepreneur James Cameron, and educator Sage Lenier to discuss what it will take to accelerate the energy transition.
They explore why the climate movement needs better storytelling, why solutions and the people building them deserve more attention, and whether the annual COP gatherings are actually helping to deliver change.
They also debate the balance between optimism and activism, the importance of bringing business, policymakers and civil society together, and why the next generation needs a more compelling vision of the future.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Does COP still matter?
The climate movement’s storytelling problem
Making climate solutions relatable
Climate optimism versus despair
The divide between activists, business and policymakers
The value of international climate diplomacy
The pace of the clean-energy transition
China and India's emissions trajectories
The need to communicate progress
The importance of convening people
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Oaklin, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä.
Links:
TED Countdown: https://countdown.ted.com/
Michael's TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_liebreich_how_we_ll_actually_ditch_fossil_fuels_by_the_numbers 
Ani Dasgupta’s Book, The New Global Possible: https://disruptionbooks.com/books/the-new-global-possible
The Pragmatic Climate Reset: Part One — Michael Liebreich: https://youtu.be/OHKGor2_BzQ 
James and Michael Debate COP: https://youtu.be/UPPjAbSxl5c 
Hannah Ritchie on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/voLbbuPEWY4 
Bill McKibben’s book, Here Comes the Sun: https://billmckibben.com/books/here-comes-the-sun 
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
02:19 - Telling Good Climate Stories
07:43 - The Origins of Climate Negotiations
12:55 - Is COP useful?
17:44 - Model Solutions
23:44 - Have We Wasted 30 Years?
27:04 - Bring The Builders On Board
33:30 - James Defends COP
39:25 - Where Are The Activists?
42:30 - Climate Doom, Climate Hopium
52:30 - The Progress We’ve Made
57:39 - Outro

Through nearly five years of war, Ukraine has been forced to adapt on the fly as attacks target its energy infrastructure, and the country has been ingenious in finding new ways to generate, distribute and protect power. Its experience has exposed vulnerabilities in the rest of Europe’s energy systems, and raises the difficult question of how well prepared our own energy systems are for disruption.
In the fifth episode of our Deep Dive Ukraine series, Michael Liebreich is joined by Ben Parsons, Partner at Oaklin, who travelled with Michael on his recent delegation to Kyiv. Together, they reflect on what they saw and heard in Ukraine, from the extraordinary efforts to keep the electricity system running under attack to how Ukraine has been forced to adapt its energy system at extraordinary speed.
From standardising equipment and making repairs easier to scaling up smaller, more distributed energy assets and better-protected infrastructure, they explore how Ukraine is building resilience in the face of relentless pressure. They also consider what the UK and other countries can learn from this experience, and why resilience needs to be built into energy systems now, rather than waiting for a crisis. 
Topics covered in this episode:
What Michael and Ben learned from their visit to Ukraine
Keeping the energy system running under sustained attack
Rebuilding and repairing critical infrastructure during wartime
The case for decentralised and flexible energy generation
Why standardised equipment and spare parts matter
What the UK and Europe can learn from Ukraine’s experience
Building resilience into future energy investment
The role of international support, expertise and investment in Ukraine’s reconstruction
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Oaklin, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. 
Past Deep Dive Ukraine Episodes:
Episode 1: Oleksandr Tolokonnikov, Sorina Seitvelieva, Emine Emirsalieva, Oleksandr Kozhukhar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOUyb3yH_Hc
Episode 2: Andrii Gerus & Dmytro Boroday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSe29KFUjAU&t=6s
Episode 3: John E. Herbst: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeF5FSvOE4g&t=1s
Episode 4: Vitalii Zaichenko and Volodymyr Kudrytskyi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nzhqwMgg5Y 
Links:
Ben Parsons’ bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/1benparsons/ 
Oaklin: https://www.oaklin.com/ 
Amory Lovins on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BtpbmDBGFQ 
Amory Lovins Book, Brittle Power: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/Brittle-Power-Energy-Strategy-National-Security/32111337721/bd 
Roger Dennis on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CELQT31riDE 
Oleksandr Tolokonnikov’s book, Unbreakable Kherson: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unbreakable-Kherson-Ukrainian-Wartime-Resilience/dp/B0H6CYRFH7 
UK Friends of Ukraine: https://friendsofukraine.uk/ 
DiXi Group report on Ukraine’s resilience: https://dixigroup.org/en/analytic/holding-the-grid-ukraines-energy-resilience-playbook/ 
Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ 
Acronyms:
NESO: National Energy System Operator
EVs: Electric Vehicles
PPE: Philosophy, Politics, and Economics 
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
06:08 Why Visit Ukraine?
10:04 Connecting With Ukraine
15:09 Europe's Hybrid Threats
20:00 Practical Support
24:02 Cost of Resilience
28:03 Infrastructure Risks
33:05 UK Energy Security
36:04 Lessons From Ukraine
38:05 Life During War
41:50 Outro

 

Despite the Trump administration's efforts to roll back clean energy subsidies and climate policies, America's energy transition is proving more resilient than many expected. Solar and battery deployment continues, nuclear power is attracting billions in private investment, and demand for electricity is surging. But after a historic set of midterms where does the US go from here?
In this episode of Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington speaks to David Victor, Professor of Innovation and Public Policy at the University of California, San Diego, about the political and economic forces shaping America's energy future.
They discuss what the US midterm elections mean for energy and climate policy, why renewable energy is continuing to grow in Republican states, and how the explosion in data centre demand is transforming the electricity industry. They also explore the backlash against AI infrastructure, the prospects for a new generation of nuclear reactors, the future of electric vehicles and America's increasingly complicated relationship with China.
Victor argues that the fundamentals of the energy transition are stronger than the political headlines suggest. But with an unreliable federal government, and public resistance to new infrastructure, the challenge now is turning technological progress into something that works for everyone.
Topics discussed in this episode: 
The US Midterm Elections and the Energy Agenda
The Future of Clean Energy Under Trump
Data Centres, Electricity Demand and the Grid
The Politics of Building New Infrastructure
The Damage to American Government Institutions
Nuclear Power and the Role of Private Investment
Why Climate Change Is Struggling to Gain Political Attention
The Future of Electric Vehicles
Electric Aviation and New Technologies
China, Trade Restrictions and the EV Industry
Critical Minerals and Battery Recycling
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. 
Links:
David Victor's article for the World Economic Forum: Why Lithium Is Not Oil: https://www.weforum.org/stories/energy-transition/lithium-is-not-oil-heres-why-that-matters
Heart Aerospace and its work on hybrid-electric aircraft: https://youtu.be/hW3uTBbAGHA 
The Bipartisan American Affordability and Jobs Act of 2026: https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IN12746
Chapters:
00:00 America's Energy Future
00:59 The Midterms and Energy
04:26 America's Electoral Puzzle
07:53 Did Energy Matter?
11:54 The Democrats' Next Move
14:21 Can Trump Stop Clean Energy?
19:36 The Data Centre Backlash
24:50 Powering the AI Boom
29:31 The Permitting Problem
32:21 Is Government Ready?
35:15 Nuclear's Private Investors
41:22 Nuclear's Bipartisan Appeal
44:30 The Future of EVs
48:12 The Next Aviation Breakthrough
51:13 Keeping Out Chinese EVs
53:33 The Critical Minerals Question
56:10 The Case for Battery Recycling

Mexico’s energy future is closely tied to its neighbour to the north. It imports much of its natural gas from the US, but could it soon be exporting clean electricity, or even data, in return? With electricity demand surging, Mexico is preparing for a major expansion of its power system, with 30GW of new generation planned by 2030 and more than $40bn in potential investment.
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington speaks to Alberto Estefan, Managing Director of Energy Infrastructure at Actis, about the scale of Mexico’s renewables opportunity. They discuss the country’s growing electricity needs, its dependence on US natural gas, and the investment needed to transform its power system. They also explore the challenges of grid expansion, the role of batteries and whether Mexico could become an energy and data exporter to the US.
Topics covered in this episode:
Mexico’s renewables boom
Latin America’s investment opportunity
The US-Mexico energy relationship
The economics of solar and batteries
Mexico’s new investment framework
Does natural gas still have a role?
Mexico as a potential data and energy exporter
The risks of delivering the energy transition
El Niño and Latin America’s energy security
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä.
Links:
Alberto Estefan’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alberto-estefan-71812b63/
Actis: https://www.act.is/ 
Actis' Lucy Heintz on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/nhGDI_0QIHg 
Robert Capuano on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxbUkAY_jCs    
Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ 
Acronyms:
CFE: Comisión Federal de Electricidad (Federal Electricity Commission) 
PPA: Power Purchase Agreement 
CAISO: California Independent System Operator
EPC: Engineering, Procurement, and Construction
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
02:22 Latin America
05:10 Mexico’s Growth
18:42 Solar Expansion
21:14 Investment Framework
27:58 Building Businesses
34:19 Gas and Renewables
37:25 Grid and Batteries
44:35 Data Exports
48:22 Delivery Risks
54:50 El Niño
58:18 Outro

The grid is one of the most important assets in any functioning energy system, transmitting electricity from where it's generated to where it's needed. In Ukraine, that challenge is enormous. 
The country is very big, 1,300 kilometers from east to west, almost the distance from London to Rome. And the system is under constant attack from Russia, which targets the grid with everything from tiny drones to ballistic missiles. 
In this fourth episode of our Ukraine Deep Dive, we're featuring two separate conversations with guests intimately familiar with the operations of that grid: Vitalii Zaichenko, the current chair and CEO of Ukrenergo, Ukraine's national grid operator, and Volodymyr Kudrytskyi, the former CEO of Ukrenergo from 2020 to 2024, and now co-founder of Negen.
Michael asks each of them how you protect a grid under constant attack. They also talk about the remarkable story of how Ukraine disconnected itself from the Russian grid and connected itself to the European grid in just three weeks at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, how to build more resilient energy systems, and why there's so much political scandal around the management of Ukrenergo and whether Ukraine could be better prepared for winter.
Topics covered in this episode:
Russia’s attacks on Ukraine’s electricity grid
Protecting substations from missiles and drones
Ukraine’s rapid synchronisation with Europe
The shift towards decentralised power generation
Batteries balancing nuclear, solar and wind
Financing and insuring energy projects in Ukraine
The political controversy surrounding Ukrenergo’s leadership
Lessons for global energy system resilience
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. 
Links:
Vitalii Zaichenko’s bio: https://ua.energy/about_us/the-management/chairman-of-the-management-board/ 
Volodymyr Kudrytskyi’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/volodymyr-kudrytskyi-45233161/ 
Ukrenergo: https://ua.energy/en/ 
Negen: https://www.negen.energy/en 
News articles covering Volodymyr’s arrest and bail: https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-ex-grid-operator-chief-detained-over-suspected-embezzlement-of-state-company-funds/ 
https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2025-11-03/kudrytskyis-arrest-attempt-to-intimidate-representatives-state 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5380xwqjo

Wärtsilä’s Håkan Agnevall on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYjGT55g5A&t=2s 
Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter:  https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
Acronyms:
TSO: Transmission System Operator
ENTSO-E: European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity
DFI: Development Finance Institution 
IFI: International Financial Institution
EBRD: European Bank for Reconstruction and Development 
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
02:34 Ukraine’s Grid
08:56 The Need for Flexibility
11:18 Protecting the Grid
14:10 Repairing the Damage
19:58 Connecting to Europe
29:04 Ukrenergo Leadership Controversy
31:11 Decentralised Power
41:20 Kudrytskyi’s Dismissal
45:35 Preparing for Winter
47:03 Attracting Investment
50:54 The Role of Gas
53:34 Lessons for the World
56:05 Outro