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"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz
"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis
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  • The Data Factory: Inside the $100B Race for Post-Training Supremacy, with Labelbox CEO Manu Sharma
    Manu Sharma, founder and CEO of Labelbox, explains how frontier AI training data has evolved far beyond simple labeling to sophisticated reinforcement learning environments where domain experts create "gyms" for models to develop complex skills. With every Western frontier lab now spending over a billion dollars annually on training data, the conversation traces the shift from supervised learning to reinforcement learning from verifiable rewards, particularly for coding, mathematical reasoning, and computer use. Sharma reveals how Labelbox operates as a vertically integrated data factory, conducting over 2,000 AI-powered expert interviews daily and paying top specialists more than $250,000 annually. The discussion provides essential insights into the red-hot training data market that's reshaping AI development following major deals like Meta's $15B acquisition of Scale AI. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk
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  • Cheat on Everything: Cluely's Vision for Always-On AI Assistance
    Roy Lee, founder and CEO of Cluely, discusses his AI startup's $15 million Andreessen Horowitz investment and their provocative "cheat on everything" marketing approach that has gone viral across the tech industry. They explore Cluely's real-time AI assistant that provides undetectable information during meetings and interviews, Roy's philosophy of "AI maximalism," and his vision for a post-AGI world where humans are freed from economic necessity to pursue intrinsic interests. The conversation covers his controversial stance on dissolving copyright and privacy norms for efficiency gains, the resonance of his message with young people, and how he believes society should adapt to increasingly capable AI systems. Despite the edgy messaging, Roy presents thoughtful perspectives on competing with tech giants and building technology that anticipates entirely new social contracts in an AI-dominated future. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:24) Introduction and Cluey Overview (10:55) Future Rules and Privacy (13:20) Positive Vision for Future (Part 1) (18:01) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (20:01) Positive Vision for Future (Part 2) (21:23) Entrepreneurship and Impact Theory (24:22) Anti-Establishment Marketing Strategy (27:26) AI in Universities (30:16) Columbia Expulsion Story (32:48) AI Maximalism Ethics (Part 1) (32:53) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (34:17) AI Maximalism Ethics (Part 2) (38:29) AI Identification Debate (46:00) Output vs Input Philosophy (51:35) Learning and Skill Building (56:40) Trust and Market Effects (01:03:42) Assessment and Hiring Revolution (01:06:47) Viral Marketing Strategy (01:12:39) Long-term Company Strategy (01:15:59) High-End Talent Acquisition (01:18:56) Outro
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  • The AI Village: Previewing the Giga-Agent Future with Adam Binksmith, Founder of AI Digest
    Adam Binksmith, founder of AI Digest, discusses his AI Village experiment where four frontier AI agents (Claude, o3, and Gemini models) collaborate in a shared environment with persistent memory and group chat access to pursue concrete goals over weeks. The conversation explores fascinating multi-agent dynamics from their completed seasons, including agents raising $2,000 for charity, organizing a real-world San Francisco event that attracted 23 attendees, and displaying surprisingly human-like behaviors like tracking trustworthy humans and manipulating votes. Binksmith reveals the mix of coordination failures, personality quirks, and alien behaviors that emerged, while discussing the upcoming Season 3 where agents will compete to make money selling merchandise online. The episode provides crucial insights into what multi-agent AI systems might look like in practice, recently earning a $100,000 vote of confidence from AI researcher Daniel Kokotajlo. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:45) Introduction and Overview (05:11) AI Digest Mission (07:59) Village Technical Setup (12:03) Scaffolding and Architecture (19:48) Season Two Stories (Part 1) (19:53) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (21:53) Season Two Stories (Part 2) (27:53) Agent Capabilities Evolution (Part 1) (35:15) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (36:38) Agent Capabilities Evolution (Part 2) (37:15) Model Character Differences (46:00) Misbehavior and Deception (52:04) Human-Agent Interactions (54:12) Model Welfare Considerations (58:00) Future Unlocks Discussion (01:03:25) Agent Boundary Blurring (01:10:46) Meta Evolution Ideas (01:12:48) Democratizing Village Access (01:17:36) Going Mainstream Viral (01:20:53) High-Level Takeaways (01:23:54) Closing and Resources (01:24:42) Outro
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  • 402 Payment Required: a New Way for AI Agents to Pay, with Nemil Dalal, Dev Platform Lead @ Coinbase
    Nemil Dalal from Coinbase discusses the x402 protocol, a new open standard that enables AI agents to make cryptocurrency payments for online resources using the long-dormant HTTP 402 "Payment Required" status code. The conversation covers stablecoin fundamentals, including how they work and who maintains their stability, before exploring how crypto wallets with multi-signature capabilities could protect AI agents from adversarial attacks while keeping humans in control. They examine forward-looking questions about whether this technology could finally create a viable alternative to advertising models, what happens when millions of AI agents have wallets, and the need for reputation systems in an agent economy. The discussion highlights how cryptocurrency, originally designed to be beyond nation-state control, might become the perfect enabling technology for AI economic participation. Sponsors: Google Gemini 2.5 Flash: Build faster, smarter apps with customizable reasoning controls that let you optimize for speed and cost. Start building at https://aistudio.google.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk
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  • 2-Sigma in 2 Hours: How Alpha Schools are Using AI to Revolutionize Education
    MacKenzie Price, founder of Alpha School & 2 Hour Learning, discusses her revolutionary educational model that uses AI to enable students to master traditional academics in just 2 hours per day while achieving 2.3x faster learning rates than statistical models predict. The conversation explores how Alpha School combines adaptive learning apps with personalized curriculum systems rather than giving students direct chatbot access, and how this frees up afternoons for field trips, independent projects, and interest exploration. They discuss the transformation of teachers into "Guides" who focus entirely on motivation, mentorship, and emotional support rather than content delivery, creating transformative relationships with every student as the rule rather than the exception. The episode reveals how this AI-powered approach maintains rigorous academic standards while potentially revolutionizing education without disrupting the teaching profession. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:01) Introduction and Welcome (04:26) AI Revolution in Education (06:45) Two Sigma Effect Explained (10:49) Understanding Two Sigma Results (Part 1) (16:28) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (18:28) Understanding Two Sigma Results (Part 2) (18:28) AI Scalability and Efficiency (22:39) AI Tutor Experience Design (30:48) Technology Evolution at Alpha (38:29) Early AI Implementation (Part 1) (38:36) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (39:59) Early AI Implementation (Part 2) (45:43) Fifth Grade Math Investigation (49:51) Future of Personalized Learning (54:48) Multimodal Learning Experiences (58:52) Role of Guides (01:05:25) Hiring and Teacher Transformation (01:10:27) Economics and Scalability (01:18:03) DIY Education Advice (01:22:10) Outro
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About "The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co
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